Really need some advice - at my wits end with my 8 year old

[curlydolly]

I need to write this down and get it out of my system so sorry if its long winded!
My 8 year old dd (9 in August). She is moody nearly all the time, she is very selfish and won't do a thing for anyone unless there's something in it for her. She says 'no' to almost everything I ask her to do, unless its something she wants to do obviously! We have endless battles over homework and she doesn't seem to care whether its late in or not. She is doing very well at school but with minimal effort and her teacher has recently been commenting on how slow she is to get any work completed. She says school is boring and she is not really interested in extra curricular activities - in comparison to what her friends seem to do in and out of school. I have encouraged her to try things but she has lost interest very quickly - ie recorder, school choir, drama, computer club. At the moment she goes to Brownies and has said she wants to give that up but I have said absolutely no because I bought the uniform etc. She has also just started swimming lessons which she does seem quite keen on so I am really hoping she keeps up the enthusiasm.
She is the eldest of 3 - my ds is nearly 6 and my youngest dd is 2.5. My ds is very different to her - enthusiastic, eager to please etc which perhaps exacerbates the challenges we have with eldest dd. I am a SAHM so around all the time for her. She has a very stable home life and I try to make sure they have a healthy diet etc. My dh has a very demanding job and is not around a huge amount during the week so the day to day parenting of the 3 of them is largely down to me.
What I really need help with is disciplining her. I have tried everything but nothing seems to affect her. I have taken toys away (all of them out of her room at one point a la supernanny) but she just said she didn't want them anyway...if we take her pocket money away she says she didn't want to buy anything anyway. If I ban the tv or computer she doesn't seem bothered. What do I have to do to hit a nerve with her??! I have also tried to be positive and give rather than take so have tried star charts where they have to collect a certain number a week to get a prize which is usually around the value of £5. It works brilliantly with ds but dd always wants something worth 3 times that much so can't be bothered! Dh has decided to try getting her to earn her pocket money by being helpful, getting out of bed on time for school etc but shes not having it as she says she can't earn enough to make it worthwhile!
I don't know where to go next with her - can anyone help?

Hi, have you tried praising the good behaviour and ignoring the bad? If punishments aren't working, it might be worth a try.

I'm not sure how interested 8 year olds are in money, mine weren't much (they're 12 and 14 now) as had most things that they needed bought for them.

I also think that if she doesn't want to go to brownies any more, there's no point in trying to make her, she will just resent it. Mine did clubs, lessons etc until they weren't fun any more. If she enjoys swimming, then concentrate on that.

If she's bored at school, maybe the lessons don't challenge her enough, you could speak to her teacher about this. Parenting is hard, I don't know what the answer is, hopefully some of this will help

Wow, that sounds really hard - lots of sympathy.

I would start by speaking to the school and get them to help you come up with a joint strategy around work/homework.

For the extra-curricular stuff, although I agree it's not great to to force them to do something they don't like I also don't think it's ok to just let them give up stuff the second they change their mind. It's good to learn about commitment. When one of ours has asked to do a particular activity and then gotten bored/fed up/whatever - especially if it's involved us spending money on clothes or equipment - we insist they stick with it for a certain period of time. For example - "you begged us for a tennis racquet and we've paid for the lessons until the end of term so you will keep going until the end of term. If you still don't like it then you don't have to do it again next term." There are exceptions to this - DD loved dancing but started coming home in tears when her teacher started screaming at her every week so we let her quit immediately and I had strong words for the teacher! On the other hand, I always felt swimming was non-negotiable - they both had to have swimming lessons until they could at least swim a length of the pool so i knew they could be safe in the water.

AS for the rest of it - is there anything at all that she does like or want? Extra 1-1 time with you? A bedtime story? A later bedtime than her younger siblings maybe? With my DD (now 10) the thing that works is giving her more grown up responsibilities & privilegs than her younger sibling. If she wants to stay up half an hour later or be allowed to walk to a friends' house alone she has to show us that she deserves it. If she can't be helpful or stop calling her little brother stupid names or do her homework then she will be treated exactly the same has him - this is the one thing that has real power over her. The other thing I've found which has helped with her behaviour over the years is talking to her when we're NOT having an arguement. Make her feel like it's special time just for the two of you, where the others are already in bed or not allowed ot interupt. Then say, "you know, this is what i would really like from you - I would like you to do your homework with a fuss and make more of an effort to be helpful around the house because EVERYONE in this house has to help out everyone else. Do you understand that?" And then ask what she wants that she thinks isn't happening - maybe she thinks you don't listen to her adn whether or not you fully agree don't just argue straight away, let her know that you understand and have heard what she has to say.

Sorry, that should say "do your homework WITHOUT a fuss"!!!

Also, maybe start the conversation with something positive, like "I think you're so clever BUT I would like you to do your homework without a fuss..." or whatever

Thank you both for your suggestions its really appreciated.
I agree with Sugar that she ought to stick with something shes signed up to for a period of time especially when there is expense involved. My view is that she needs to learn that you need to persevere with some things and not give up at the first hurdle. The trouble is she blows hot and cold all the time so its not a case of forcing her to go to Brownies as sometimes she genuinely seems to like going! She is so complicated and has been difficult since the moment she was born lol!!
I also agree with you lemon that praising the good is much better than also banging on about the bad stuff. In practice it is hard to ignore bad behaviour especially when it is affecting the whole household but it is interesting that (going on from what you said about having 1 to 1 time Sugar) that she is sometimes a different child when allowed to stay up with us later than the other two and watch something on tv with us or whatever. I think I might try and reward her with more privileges like this and see what happens.

my eldest tends towards this as well. I leave him to organise himself with some stuff - so getting out of bed/dressed/fed/bags for school etc is his problem not mine and if his homework isn't done, it's his problem not mine. If he asks for help with homework I help but otherwise it's up to him. He's sat doing it now.