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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

4 year old speech, should I be worried?

24 replies

Groovymoves · 02/05/2011 20:14

DS is 4 and 2 months. He was a late talker, was well over 2 but always had good understanding.

He talks lots now but I'm starting to be concious that other people struggle to understand him.
He pronounces "v" as "d" and "f" as "s" also "r" as "w", so "five" becomes "side" etc.

He starts school in September and I'm now panicking he's going to get picked on, he's a sensitive soul too.

Do I need to speak to a HV about this and get him some SALT or will he get there eventually? Nursery haven't expressed concerns but TBH I don't get much from them anyway so not really holding their opinion in high regard.

TIA

OP posts:

CarGirl · 02/05/2011 20:16

Yes he will get there in the end. one of my dds had similar sound substitutions and was reffered for salt so sounds like he needs it to.

Back later with some "what to do to help" must go eat dinner

BarbaraBar · 02/05/2011 20:19

Ds2 was exactly like this.

2 sessions with a SALT and he got the hang of it completely. Totally painless and so worth it. Lots of (easy) practice at home and it was done.

mummyosaurus · 02/05/2011 20:23

Reception children are usually kind and I don't imagine he will get teased in reception. Maybe have a word with the teacher.

DS is 4.4 and still pronounces some words incorrectly.

I think you should speak to HV for your peace of mind, but from what you've said I don't think there's too much to worry about. Of course I am not an expert.

When he says a word incorrectly repeat it back to him in a sentence, kindly, without drawing attention to it. Eg DS: "I would like side sweets" You: "You'd like five sweets would you?"

CocktailQueen · 02/05/2011 20:24

My ds was like this - different sounds tho - and I saw a private salt before seeing an nhs salt, and would totally recommend you see one asap - only a couple of sessions can make a huge difference to speech - I really noticed it with ds's speech afterwards.
hth

justaboutWILLfinishherthesis · 02/05/2011 20:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

myBOYSareBONKERS · 02/05/2011 20:29

My son is the same. Go to your GP and get his ears checked for wax build up as that can affect how they hear and then pronounce words. Whilst there ask for a hearing test as ENT and SALT will want to check that there isn't a problem in that area too.

My ds2 has impacted wax which I do think is an issue for him so it will be interesting to hear what the hearing test brings on Wednesday

CarGirl · 02/05/2011 20:29

First I would get his hearing checked, dd2 had glue ear and once she had grommits fitted this shy sensitive soul changed into one much more outgoing by then she'd had her speech therapy but her intermittent poor hearing and affected her!

Yes you need to do positive modelling but "side" to "five" is a huge leap. DD use to say gog for dog so after we'd practices the "d" sound for a bit and she could say it on it's own we practised, d......og and then made it a smaller gap. I was also taught to ask her (when the moment was right) do you mean gog or dog?

I think the r/w is your lowest priority - I think the age "r" is expected to be correct is older.

hopefully one of the SALTS will turn up and give you expert advice!

suzikettles · 02/05/2011 20:35

I recently checked up with the HV as ds (4.5) can be difficult to understand if you don't know him and he's starting school this summer.

She was happy with his speech and that he could say all the sounds (except r but that's usually the last one and she reckons it's coming) so we're just working on him not speaking quite so fast and modelling good speech sounds.

She did say that there are particular sounds where they are told to automatically refer on to SALT if there is a problem at this age. Can't remember the whole list but I know "v" and "f" are two of them. Dn has been referred for this reason - not a big problem but they'll work on them with him and make sure he can "hear" them and give exercises to help him. Apparently they are sounds that are less likely to just improve with time.

Original poster

Groovymoves · 02/05/2011 20:36

Thanks all.

Sure his hearing is fine, can hear a packet of buttons open from 100 paces .

We do repeat the correct word back to him but clearly this isn't enough.

Will ring HV tomorrow and see if they can refer.

Thanks again, I feel like a terrible mother for not doing anything earlier, just thought he would catch up.

OP posts:

CarGirl · 02/05/2011 20:52

speech sounds chart

www.speech-therapy-information-and-resources.com/speech-sound-development-chart.html

I also found it was harder for her to correct "old" words she said incorrectly than learn new words IYSWIM.

A child/person can generally have okay hearing but yet have poor hearing in the frequencies that are key for certain letters. It can also be that they had poor hearing when the learnt a particular sound and therefore learn it incorrectly. Glue ear comes and goes and it could well be what has caused the problem in the past - he now needs to learn to hear the difference between "g" and "d"

My youngest dd passed 2 NHS hearing tests - turned out her hearing is far from normal, too sensitive in the low frequencies, ok in the middle frequencies and near hearing impaired in the highest freqencies - no wonder she had severe speech delay despite understanding everything we said to her and had advanced role play etc for her age!

Original poster

Groovymoves · 02/05/2011 21:01

Thanks CarGirl that's very interesting. Will ring clinic and ask for a hearing test too. Will have to be NHS as no money for private

OP posts:

mummyosaurus · 02/05/2011 21:04

FWIW I think you are taking action at an appropriate time, before he starts school, don't feel bad! You're a good mum to be picking this up and taking action.

Good luck.

justaboutWILLfinishherthesis · 02/05/2011 21:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

Groovymoves · 02/05/2011 21:15

justabout - I agree, I've tried showing him how to make the f sound but he can't get his mouth that way

Thanks mummyosaurus, just feel I maybe should have done something sooner but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

OP posts:

CarGirl · 02/05/2011 21:19

"justabout" I was taught in speech therapy that modelling is exactly what to do and that it's not until a child is 3-4 that they grasp the concept that what they think they are saying is not the same as what others are saying. My youngest had to wait a year for her therapy for precisely that reason - the therapist explained that if you said to her at 2.5/3 "do you mean Wue or Sue" she would be thinking " stupid mother I said Sue what on earth are you talking about"

CarGirl · 02/05/2011 21:24

use a mirror with him when he's trying to copy sounds he can't make really exagerate the difference between F and s - getting him to place his front teeth on his bottom lip, even if it's just getting him to blow air though. Another thing we were told was lots of blowing and sucking through straws to strengthen and just to use the muscles at the front of the mouth - my youngest couldn't say s or z or f come to think of it......

LawrieMarlow · 02/05/2011 21:27

I think it's only been recently that DD (5.7) can notice that she sometimes uses "w" instead of "r". Before that she wouldn't have realised she was doing it IYSWIM.

SpawnChorus · 02/05/2011 21:29

Ooh while you SALTS / knowledgeable folk are around, can I pick your brains about my 4.9 yr old? He has intermittently dodgy hearing which I'm trying to get sorted out (bit of an uphill struggle, but that's another story). I think his speech his still a bit unclear, and I'm wondering how "serious" it is. His problem is that he can't pronounce the "hard" letters.

e.g.:

c becomes g
p becomes b
t becomes d

um...are there more?? can't think.

He starts school in August, and the added complication is that it's a bilingual school (Gaelic...we don't speak it much at home, but he's been hearing/using it in a Nursery setting for a couple of years). Anyway, is this the sort of problem that will sort itself out, or should I be pushing for a SALt referral?

Thanks!

CarGirl · 02/05/2011 21:39

Yes absolutely he needs referring.

What's up with his hearing? With my youngest's shocking NHS hearing cock up I ended up sorting her hearing out privately using Johansen therapy - obviously only works if it's a brain issue not a physicial hearing problem.

Will go try and find the sound circle I was looking for earlier, tell you when to refer for SALT

CarGirl · 02/05/2011 21:47

Here is the speech sounds circle, I think they should be able to say all the "easy" sound by 3.5 and if not refer, I can't find the age bit on line.

www.slc.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/documents/speech_sounds_dev_circle.pdf?preventCache=08%2F11%2F2010+15%3A03

justaboutWILLfinishherthesis · 02/05/2011 21:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CarGirl · 02/05/2011 22:07

Best bit was having a telephone row with a heath visitor to get a double refferal - ie one for SALT and one for hearing, despite my individual HV having agreed that was what we would do if dd4 hadn't improved in x months. What is the point of referring for SALT if you don't get a hearing test done as well mind you the hearing test wasn't done properly anyway no dd wasn't not playing the game she couldn't hear properly argggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

both lots of SALT me seperate dds had was actually very good and given quite quickly but I know that my experience is in the minority sadly.

justaboutWILLfinishherthesis · 02/05/2011 22:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CarGirl · 02/05/2011 22:30

Grrr indeed

I cried when my youngest failed to make any progress in 10 months, we thought there had been some improvement, I guess we had just improved our translation skills! Thankfully she was then old enough to start therapy but I honestly only believe it worked so well and quickly because I was also sorting her hearing out at the same time.

I don't understand why we don't treat people holistically - ie looking at them as a whole person rather than just their speech etc

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