Really struggling at times with our otherwise wonderful 7 year old son

[Theodora]

He is a kind, bright, thoughtful boy who we obviously love unconditionally. However, he has an unbelievable capacity to whine and maintain a bad mood for hours, making us all feel very unhappy.

He has always been very persistent even as a baby and will keep pushing for something even though we are ALWAYS definite that no means no. Yesterday at the beach he got grumpy because one of his cousins wasn't there and wouldn't join in any of the games. He kept leaning on us aggressively, whining and looking mutinous and angry. I don't think he knew what he wanted, he was just out of sorts. Once he is in a bad mood, he finds it difficult to get out of it. He's said to us that it's embarrassing to stop being grumpy - and I understand what he means. We always give him lots of positive reinforcement when he does calm down, but would be grateful for any tips to help him get of of his bad mood.

After a sad bedtime last night where he ignored and was rude to my husband we've decided on a zero tolerance policy to whining. We're going to say "please talk to us in your normal voice - I will listen and respond then". Any more tips or advice would be brilliant.

Also should a 7 year old be expected to get dressed and do his teeth in the morning with a quick reminder or is that unreasonable? He will do it if we make it fun for him with races or notes, but delays and ignores us if we just ask him to do it.

Anyway sorry for the essay, we'd be grateful for any advice. Thanks so much.

AH, mine is very similar. Mornings need a few tellings, tbh, even though the sequence has been the same for his whole life. I would get up earlier for a while and stop with the games until he gets that message, tbh. But ds will sometimes push that aspect and it's infuriating.

I find with mine that he's at an age where he sees teenagers and likes some aspects of their stereotypical behaviour - the moods, the sulks. He'll sometimes talk about sulking and he's not learned that from us, so I imagine it's from MI High or something. ANd he's genuinely pissed off that he can't get his own way. But at the same time, he's still a little, little kid: he has failures of logic all the time and tries to push us to almost smooth them over in his mind.

TBH we just ignore him when he's like that (in a good way, I mean) and usually, after a good while he will then respond to the toddler method of distraction, if it's not done too obviously.

WIth the rudeness, I accept that he is practising what he hears outside the home, but can't know the ramifications of it. So I'll say something like 'that voice came out as very sarcastic and people don't really like that. I'll talk about it if you can use a nicer voice'. I have no idea if that's a good thing to do or not, I have just realised.

Thanks for your speedy response and good to hear that we're not alone. I'm slightly ashamed to admit that I'm embarrassed by his level of whinginess in front of friends and family. People have said things like "is he always this whiny?" and I hate that because he is a dear boy and I want them to see the lovely sides of his personality. He's exhausted today and has been in time out twice in last hour or so. I do know that tiredness makes things MUCH worse, but we still need to apply the sanctions, I feel so sorry for him and don't know how best to help him.

Just wondering. What do you do when he goes into one of these bad moods? Do you try to change it, or do you ignore it?

Maybe you could try having a word with him about the bad moods BEFORE he has his next one ... so, when he's calm and happy, sit him down and explain that you love him to bits but the whining/sulking is not permissible and that you expect him not to do it. Tell him that you will not talk to him when he whines/sulks. Be kind but firm. Then, next time the whining/sulking occurs, just completely ignore him. The moment he stops, talk to him normally - without making a huge fuss of him. Sometimes I think children (especially mine!) play up because of the extra attention they know they'll get AFTER they've stopped playing up - does this make sense?

Let us know how you get on

Is he an only child, by the way? (I'm one!)

Do you know, I'm not a huge fan of time out.
I tend to think that bad behaviour like this in a child is an indication of a need of some sort, and time out is quite a sad thing for a child who basically wants something (can be something simple) but can't say what.

Of course if what he wants is to hack you off, then by all means send him to his room. I do do it sometimes. There's a book 'How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk' where they advocate indulging the fantasy, so sometimes I just witter on a bit in that vein (you have to read the book to know what I mean!) and that works to switch him into a different mode.

(Mine is an only child though, I have the time to do this.....)

Thanks for your replies. No, he has three sisters, one older, two younger. The youngest is only 7 months so we are sleep deprived and busy with all 4!

I have How to talk... And think that's a good suggestion - I must re-read it. I liked the fulfilling their wishes in fantasy bit, though our son is so persistent he will often come back to his original question once we've done with our fantasy ideas!

I also don't like time out, but he's hit my husband in frustration and he needed to calm down (and we didn't know what else to do??!!)

Other strategies we use are taking 10 minutes (or more) off his bedtime and my husband takes away his bedtime story (I don't like this at all but know why DH does it, as it works as a threat and is relatively easy to carry out.)

My husband mainly uses TO and time away from bedtime whereas I get cross and shouty when things get really bad. Neither of which are good strategies (though sadly they do work) and we feel bad for not managing his behaviour well.

On the plus side we explained this afternoon about not responding to whines and he remembered to change his tone of voice quite effectively.

TGGR sadly he won't let us ignore his moods. He comes up and grumps near us, grumbling under his breath while leaning aggressively on one of us. We ask him to leave the room until he can calm down and have suggested he hits a pillow or scribbles angrily on blank paper. He wants to be near us. But there comes a time when I think he wants to come out of the mood but doesn't know how. DH got him out of it once by writing down and giving a verbal commentary on the bad mood which made him smile and diffused the situation. However you can't use that strategy every time!

Thanks again, we both appreciate your input.

i think that you;re doing the right thing by just saying "use a normal voice" and then ignoring any whingeing

but i also think you need to stop praising him when he calms down and stops being grumpy. he should do it anyway, without needing the positive re-inforcement, and it may also be making him worse if he KNOWS you will make a big deal over it iyswim? if he says it's embarassing to stop being grumpy then you need to make sure he can stop being grumpy and everyone else just carries on with it and no-one points it out.
does that make sense?

I was very similar as a child although my behaviour extended to not drinking or using the toilet, because when I did I knew my mum would make a big deal out of it

as for things in the morning/evening, have you tried a visual timetable? pictures of teeth, getting dressed etc etc and he just ticks when he has done it? that way he can't claim he doesn't know it needs doing, but he also doesn't have people reminding him about it... it puts him in control

Oh ds gets sent to his room immediately if he hits. I don't know what to do either, really. I even bought a book called 'Understanding your 6-7 yr old' which was OK, but mainly reiterated that a child that age is still really immature and needs more babying than you'd think from the swagger, backchat and love of violence.

I am sure it doesn't help, but when ds is obviously trying to push us, dh and I often catch each other's eye and dissolve in fits of laughter. We can't carry that on.....

It strikes me, when you talk of praising him when he comes out of his moods, and writing down and commentating on him when he's grumpy, that he's getting LOADS of lovely attention from being whiny.

You say he wants to be near you/lean into you. Don't let him. Walk away/shut yourself away/put him in time out (with sanctions for refusing to comply) depending on the location/situation.

Zero tolerance. Don't make a game of it.

Thanks. Lots of good ideas. And yes you probably are right about giving him too much attention when he comes out of his mood. The 'writing down' incident was a suggestion from Playful Parenting that worked well, but isn't sustainable - DH only did it once, but you're right it was attention for his bad behaviour.

Sounds like we need to remove him when he's grumpy, tell him to come back when he's in a better mood, but just treat him normally when he does rejoin the family.

If time out isn't a good sanction, what should we do on the odd occasions when he hits us?

dd (6) is a super-whinger. It drives me to distraction. I now have a zero tolerance policy. If she starts, I say that she has to the count of 5 to put a happy smiley face on and I will be happy to engage with her and talk to her about what the problem is. Otherwise, on the count of 5 she can remove herself from my ear-shot until she is ready to be happy and smiley. It has about a 70% success rate. If she won't stop, I refuse to make an issue of it with her and walk off. She will follow me and I tell her not to until she has stopped. Sending her to her room is not a great success as she usually plays happilly on her own - it is better if she is around the family and we ignore her.

Thanks Goosey. Our zero tolerance policy has started and is going pretty well. I think it will rely on DH and I being on the ball as I think I sometimes respond to a whine without realising it - no whinges got passed us today!