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Behaviour/development

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Original poster

5 yr old and faecal incontinence, help

29 replies

frazzled74 · 11/04/2011 15:18

5yr old ds has been having accidents for last 2-3 months, sometimes runny/soft but usually dry and flaky and very smelly, he only actually has managed to do a poo in the toilet about once every couple of weeks.He says he doesnt know he has been.help and advice please.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

bumblingbovine · 11/04/2011 15:30

This sounds a bit like constipation. DS has quite a few accidents like this for a while and still does if constipated. He was just too impatient to wait the required time to do a poo so would sit on the loo and jump up after 3-5 mins saying he dien't need to go. He also had trouble recognising when he needed to go. This mean he was witholding and over time that lead to constipation and leaking/soiling. Sometimes this happened in his sleep

What we started doing was to have have "do a poo" as part of the bedtime routine. DS had to sit on the loo before the bedtime routine for at least 15 mins or until he had done a poo. If he hadn't done one in 15-20 mins that was fine but every evening he had to try for a set time. He was allowed a book or comic or annual to look at to pass the time. You could maybe do stickers and a reward for sitting for 15 mins every evening. Don't do the rewards based on doing a poo as he won't always be able to, just for sitting for a set time and trying. If he does a one earlier then in 15 mins then that counts as a rewards as well

Over the weeks it became a routine so DS started emptying his bowls every day at around the same time. We still do this now but Ds doesn't need to wait 15 mins any more. He still has some trouble knowing when he needs a poo but as he goes every day at the same time it doesn't cause any problems as his body sort of knows when it is time to go and does it then.

If your ds is very constipated he may also need some laxatives (see your GP) but I would still encourage the regular time setting whether you are using laxatives or not.

HighFibreDiet · 11/04/2011 15:50

Sounds like chronic constipation to me too. Ds2 used to get this and he also did occasional runny poos and some extremely smelly ones (known as 'overflow'). If there's too much poo sitting in your ds's bowels and not coming out, it will be creating pressure all the time and his body will have stopped responding to this stimulus, so he probably won't know if he needs to poo or not.

Loads of mumsnetters have been through this (far more than you'd expect)! I guess some kids are just more susceptible to getting constipated than others are. With ds2, regular times for sitting on the loo helped, lots of water to drink, lots of fruit and veg, lots of exercise (swimming seemed to be particularly helpful) and a few visits to the GP to get a combination of laxatives. Whether or not you agree with using laxatives long-term I think they do help to clear the compaction in the first place.

For us, it was a very long haul and both myself and dp found it very hard not to get angry when we were frequently cleaning up poo. But it will take a while and even now we have to watch out that he is drinking enough water and isn't eating too much stodgy food or he will start to get constipated again.

madwomanintheattic · 11/04/2011 15:54

as above.
ds1 has a twice a day bathroom routine though. ten minutes after b'fast, ten minutes after dinner. he still has some issues (9yo) with a once a day routine he was still soiling a lot.

Georgimama · 11/04/2011 15:55

My brother had this as a seven or eight year old - it was overflow from really compacted constipation. He had to have an enema and it never happened again. I'm really surprised you haven't taken him to the doc.

Blatherskite · 11/04/2011 16:17

I was just about to start a thread like this!! DS is just 4 but has been fully potty trained for at least 18 months now. We had a lot of accidents just after DD was born 16 months ago and then recently, he's started pooing in his pants again.

Last week it was a bit runny and we put it down to a mild case of the runs but he's messed himself twice today and it's been thick and smelly. It doesn't seem to bother him at all and he has carried on playing (grinding the mess into his pants) until I catch a whiff as he walks past and ask him about it.

I've been putting it down to him getting engrossed in a game and not wanting to come away to use the loo. This morning when I smelt him, he was on the computer so I cleaned him up then banned him from the PC. This last time, I've sent him to his room - I don't want to be harsh on him if he really can't help it but surely leaving it until he's ground it into his pants isn't a constipation issue?

Georgimama · 11/04/2011 16:20

If he's confined to his room how is that going to teach him to get to the loo on time?

Blatherskite · 11/04/2011 16:28

He's not 'confined'. He's just called down to say he's going for a wee. He's just not down here engrossed in the garden or his cars or anything else that might put him off. He's got toys up there but his favourites are in the lounge.

Georgimama · 11/04/2011 16:30

I just don't see the sense in punishing a child for something like this. It's clearly a problem that's been going on for some time - have you taken him to the doctor?

madwomanintheattic · 11/04/2011 16:36

oh dear. blather, you need to have a rethink. otherwise you're going to be in the same situation as me. ds is 9.

get him out of his room, impose a proper toileting routine, and see the doc for lactulose etc if you suspect impaction. check diet and fluid intake.

Blatherskite · 11/04/2011 16:41

I'm not sure he is constipated though. It's not just the pooing in his pants - it's the not saying anything until I smell it. He's not having an accident and then saying "oops Mummy, I need cleaning up" he's sitting and playing in it until it's ground in. He was out in the garden for maybe 20 minutes playing with his sister. He's got a new swing which he was enjoying. I could see him from the kitchen window so was there for him to come to if he needed me...but he didn't.

I hadn't even considered it could be constipation until I saw this thread so so, he hasn't been to the doctor. Before the 2 incidents last week he'd been clean for months so it's not "clearly a problem that's been going on for some time" either.

Georgimama · 11/04/2011 16:43

Oooh, let's all put bits of people's posts in inverted commas. I can do that too.

"We had a lot of accidents just after DD was born 16 months ago and then recently, he's started pooing in his pants again."

You're back peddling.

madwomanintheattic · 11/04/2011 16:45

ds1 is quite happy to sit in it all day. he never admits he's had an accident at all. quite ahppy to carry on playing with his ds/ watching tv/ whatever.

but whatever the cause/ complaint, it isn't going to be cured by sending him to his room. check diet/ fluid intake. impose proper toileting routine. and if it is a recurring issue, go to docs to check for constipation/ impaction.

ds1 has had his electronics/ whatever else he was doing at the moment of soiling removed for weeks. no effect on outcome whatsoever.

Blatherskite · 11/04/2011 16:47

Yes, a spate of accidents after his sister was born, just a few months after he'd been potty trained - not unusual for children to go backwards either so not necessarily a problem - then months and months of being OK and now accidents again. 16 months is a relatively long time when you're 4

Not back peddaling at all

colditz · 11/04/2011 16:50

Get him out of his room and stop being so cruel. You can't punish a child for incontinence. If he's not getting to the toilet on time, he needs more attention, not less.

Blatherskite · 11/04/2011 16:52

Thank you madwoman. It's interesting to know your DS wasn't mentioning it either. We make sure he sists before bed but I will make it a longer sitting and try for one in the morning too.

He gets plenty of fruit/veg but generally doesn't want much to drink unless it's smoothies so I'll try a bit harder with that.

K999 · 11/04/2011 16:56

DD2 was like this until the last few months. We had been to the doctor and had lactose and Movicol. They didn't really seem to work. She almost had a fear of the toilet so even when her poos were soft she still soiled herself. It took weeks of getting in a routine, getting her to sit on the toilet for 2 mins at a time when she went for a pee just in case. Eventually she went one day by herself and was well rewarded!! I can also recommend a daily breakfast of bran flakes...

Blatherskite · 11/04/2011 16:56

He's just come down for a car and gone back upstairs willingly. I asked if he wanted to play donw here and he said no as he is happy playing in his room.

I'm not trying to be cruel FFS. I'm trying to work out what's going on with him. He's not incontinent - he's been fine for months up until now. It wasn't until i saw this thread that the idea that it might be constipation even crossed my mind. He poos regularly, once or twice each day so it can't be can it?

Georgimama · 11/04/2011 16:58

Yes it can. He can have impacted faeces further up the bowel. Some normal bowel function is able to bypass the impaction but from time to time the bowel goes into spasm and he can't help it.

Blatherskite · 11/04/2011 17:02

I didn't know that.

See how much more helpful these threads can be when you offer advice rather than tearing strips off people?

ScarlettWalking · 11/04/2011 17:04

Nope

colditz · 11/04/2011 17:05

See how much of a kinder parent you are when you seek advice rather than punishing small children for something you don't realise they have no control over?

Georgimama · 11/04/2011 17:05

You'll find MN can be even more helpful when you drop the passive aggressive attitude. If you think that's tearing strips you need to toughen up, princess.

Also the second or third post into this thread gave the exact description I just did. So reading properly may help you too.

Blatherskite · 11/04/2011 17:13

Unfortunately, I can't put the world on pause while I find that advice though can I! I have to respond to what's happening and then go looking for why and how to help...

He's downstairs now eating an apple and having a glass of water. No more cruel parenting.

And it's certainly not me that started with the passive agressiveness princess and please don't start with the 'this is Mumsnet, I can be as mean as I like' attitude. Save that for AIBU.

Anyway, I'm off now as you two picking fights isn't helping the op. I hope she finds some more gentle advice with her problem

Original poster

frazzled74 · 11/04/2011 19:15

Thanks, loads of response, I had put it down to laziness as he is happy to sit in it, and doesnt tell me he has been, but it was only today that he told me he cant feel anything that i wondered about constipation. I will get dr appointment tomorrow and will look at adding a bit more fibre to his diet.

OP posts:

bumblingbovine · 12/04/2011 15:49

Also if we go on holiday nowadays ds can start soling again. This is because regular loo routine soemtimes goes out of the window and also the type of food we eat might not be the best. These two combined tend to lead to ds pooing in his sleep again, one of the joys of holidays!

Nowadays if I notice he hasb't done a poo one day or if we have any soiling at al in his pants even if just a timy bitl, or if he wets the bed (often a precursor to soiling the bed) we implement the laxatives for a few days, tighten up the diet and within a few days it is usually sorted.

It is an ongoing vigilance thing though. It also helps that ds doesn't like the soling now (it neve used to bother him though) and happily eats the extra fruit and fibre, drinks the water, takes the medication etc as he wants to get it back under control as well

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