Is there something up with Ds1 (4 year old) or just something to work on.

[BulstrodeTheApatosaurus]

Hi!
My first post here so please be kind.
DS1 is 4 and generally a lovely boy. Wild imagination (he tells me a story every night and makes up his own songs which he claims are told to him by a stuffed dinosaur). His teacher (preschool) has alerted us though to the fact that he hasn't yet chosen a hand to write with (when drawing he will use his hands interchangeably) and he's also pretty clumsy (he can be standing next to you quite happily, the next moment you look down and he's on the floor). He has no idea how to use scissors (I tried once to help him and failed miserably) and is not great at tracing. Fine motor coordination and he are not good friends. He is also rather obsessive (obsessed at having everything the same as DS2), collecting, ordering, gathering.
My first child so I don't know if this is unusual.
Any ideas how I can help him esp. with the fine motor coordination/clumsiness?
Thanks!!

You could try craft activities which use fine motor skill but I would look into this a bit more. I'm no expert but that could be dyspraxia which DH has.

Hi there - may I say how much I love your name, which would have meant nothing to me before DS1 introduced me to dinosaurs and Thomas the Tank Engine!

DS1 is also four and very obsessive, especially where his brother (2.6yrs) is concerned. So whatever DS2 has, DS1 has to have, which can make things difficult. He's also gone from a Thomas obsession to a dinosaur obsession (hence my understanding of your name on a far deeper level than before children), which is causing a few problems as he refuses to wear anything but dinosaur clothes. But I think that this kind of obsessiveness is normal with children of this age, so I'm not too worried.

About the fine motor skills - DS1 is quite clumsy, and a bit unco-ordinated, and also seems to use his hands interchangeably for writing and drawing. He holds a pen awkwardly too, and doesn't seem able to learn how to do it properly. He's also taking ages to learn how to dress himself, but we had a moment of triumph this morning when he put on (dinosaur) socks on for the first time, with my assistance. I'm not especially worried about it as he's very bright and I think it's just a question of perseverance on my part to overcome his physical awkwardness and reluctance to try learning anything that he thinks he can't do.

Occasionally I worry about it being dyspraxia, but no one has said anything at pre-school, and his paediatrician seems to think there's nothing to worry about at this stage.

So if you are worried, I'd get him checked out, but also try focusing on teaching him to do different things for himself to create a positive cycle so that the more he feels he can do, the better he gets at doing it.

A friend of mine's grandfather had some kind of thing where he didn't have a dominant hand - I think it's a recognised "problem" (for want of a better word) because it can cause issues with co-ordination etc. but it's not a big problem
have a look here re. cross-dominance and see if it's any help to you.

ttalloo! Thanks for the compliment :)
I think we have kids cut from the same cloth. DS2 is also around that age. I'm deeply relieved it's not just me. The teacher actually suggested we bring DS1 to the GP who asked him to run about and basically found nothing wrong with him. GP then rolled his eyes and said he suspected the teacher was being overly cautious. Sounds like I should just persevere and try not to worry too much. Do you have any tips?
DrSeuss, the craft ideas sound good! I really must do more of those. The mess two small boys make though shudder last time they painted they just painted themselves blue and green up to the elbows.
thumbwitch, cross dominance look interesting. Cheers for that.

I find with DS1 that I have to keep plugging away at improving his physical co-ordination, but there's no point if he's very tired or grumpy.

So there was a phase of trying to get him to put underpants on, and then of not bothering when he was ill and out of sorts for a while, followed by another of trying, after which he seemed to get the hang of it - but it's taken months, and only really seemed to work when he was motivated by (you guessed it) dinosaur pants.

He's now very proud of this, and was thrilled this morning when he put on his new socks, but there's no guarantee that tomorrow he'll be up for it.

I think also it might be a boy thing - girls tend to be better at focusing on mastering tasks like these because they can see the point - and a firstborn thing. His obsession with getting one over on his younger brother means that he does tend to want to be mummied a bit more than is necessary for his age, because he sees that DS2 is still being dressed for example, and doesn't see why he (DS1) has to do it for himself. Whereas DS2 keeps wanting to do things for himself, even if he can't.

It's hard work, isn't it!

Can I join the gang! DS is also 4 and bless him his 2yr old sister is as good at drawing as he is. He has absolutely no interest in holding a pencil and sometimes when I drop him off at school I get so worried when I see his work next to some of the others. But he will play for over an hour with the 5-12 year old size of lego "inventing" machines and his robots and the stories that go round them. The way I look at it is that shows he does have some of the skills and the concentration - he just doesn't want to focus on the drawing and writing side.
I signed him up - with a few of his friends - to a local arts class after school. There are only 6-8 of them in the class and they do everything from models to painting etc. He loves it (as much because he does it with friends) and is getting better at pencil skills through that. Maybe you could find something like that.
His teacher told me that it evens out by 7 or 8 - and not too worry. She also rather sweetly reassured me that he was ahead in other areas like language skills and vocabulary which gave me a little moment of mummy pride!

My ds is 4.5 and I have been worried about his fine motor skills. He does have a dominant hand but he doesn't hold a pen right and until the beginning of this year (feb, for us) he only drew scribbles. But he's come on hugely in the last few months - he can write his name (it takes the whole page, but still) and he drew a recognisable camel for me the other day. I was completely taken aback. Anway, so maybe it is just a matter of waiting a little longer...

His teacher last year also told me it wasn't a problem, and that boys often developed their fine motor skills through lego and stuff like that rather than drawing.

That's really encouraging, tryingtoleave - DS1 can write his name (it's only four letters) but his spacing is terrible, and he hasn't got the hang of letter order, and his drawing is getting better but it's still not brilliant. And he can't colour in to save his life, whereas one of his friends of the same age does it amazingly well.

I suppose it is a question of what soeraemaeul's son's teacher said - that they all get there by a certain age, and some take longer than others. I remember being really anxious about DS1's walking, because he didn't take off till he was 16 months old, and a really nice HV told me not to worry, because all children start Reception being able to walk, talk, feed themselves and use the potty; they just don't all learn to do it at the same time. And DS1 did start speaking from a very early age, and was chatting away in full sentences by the age of 2, which made up for the slow physical progress.

Actually, I wonder if there is a correlation between the age at which a child starts crawling and walking, and drawing and writing. So the earlier a child masters the physical skills of crawling and walking, the earlier they get the hang of fine motor skills. What do you think?

Arghhh - MN ate my post!
Anyway was going to say I think there is also a link between the speaking and the drawing/writing. My DS started talking early and now starts to talk from the minute his eyes open and rarely stops - its a rolling story of his life and a thousand questions. When I try to encourage him to write or draw he seems to genuinely not understand why he simply can't just say or describe what he wants as opposed to putting it to paper. I find it interesting that ttalloo and Bulstrode are chatterboxes with wild imaginations (if I've not read too much into the posts)

my dd1 is 4.1 and very similar
she too was an early fluent talker who prefers imaginative play
we have really worked on a few key things and she can now dress and undress from head to toe independently - this had been a really big step involving working intensively on one thing at a time (zips were the latest).
her "art" is verrry scribbly compared to her peers, but now we have sorted the dressing thing we are encouraging her to work a little more at writing and drawing. she prefers specific projects - like elc craft kits, as the tasks are clearly defined. mrz, (another MNer) sent me some really helpful tips re- improving coordination which i will pm on if anyone wants them.

Hi, I have 3 ds and the oldest two are almost 9 and 5. DS1 has never shown interest in writing/drawing and is still not the greatest writer now. As a 4yo, his fine motor skills were not the best, although he always showed a preference for his right hand. I wouldn't say he is now particularly clumsy or lacking fine motor skills. He just grew up and matured (although, as I say, writing is not his 'thing'). DS2 didn't show a hand preference until at least 4.5yo and was similar to ds1 in terms of fine motor skills. He now loves drawing/writing and my house is drowning in paper!
I think at 4, clumsiness and lack of fine motor skills are not abnormal, they each develop at their own pace. As you can see from my two, at 4 they were the same, one is a lovely writer, the other looks like a spider has crawled across the page! Anyway, at 4, in terms of writing, anything more than mark making on a page is a bonus. I wouldn't worry is I was you.

*if not is

I was under the vague impression that children tended to focus on one skill more than another to start with, e.g. if they walked early, they tended to talk later and vice versa; perhaps once they move onto talking, they stop improving their motor skills until the verbal skills are up there, then they go back to motor skills again?
Totally ad hoc theory, btw!

My eldest was quite like your DS at the same age, although all my DCs have been very right handed almost from the moment they were born. I used to say he was like a goalie, as he would suddenly fall over from standing still! His running was slow and ungainly and this was what worried me mainly: he was a lot slower than all the other children, and I knew that would upset him eventually.

Aged about six I got him referred to a motor skills clinic. When we went to the GP to ask about referral I wrote a letter to the GP and sent it in advance, I also took a copy with us for him to read in case he hadn't read it (he hadn't!); this was because I wanted to say about DS getting upset about not being able to keep up with the other children but didn't want DS to hear me saying it.

At the motor skills clinic he was assessed as having mild hypermobility particularly affecting the wrists, hips and ankles. It's not dyspraxia, nothing like and there is not a lot they can do.

DS is 10 now and luckily his writing has always been OK, but still hasn't a hope of tying shoelaces, he can't put the pressure on to make a good enough knot. I have just bought DS2 (3) some wellies, with reluctance, because DS1 couldn't walk in them properly and kept tripping up. And as for the time I bought DS1 Flip Flops - you have never seen anything like it!! - it was as if I had played some sort of trick on him. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

It makes me sad when at school they do still make comments about DS1 struggling with arts and crafts projects, or that his writing is a bit too big. Considering how weak his hands are his writing is bloody marvellous. I say: "Yes well he has got a motor skills problem, the notes on this are in his file" < Paddington Hard Stare > but as it's not a serious problem there's nothing much the school can do . . . he is just going to have to learn that he isn't going to be "good with his hands."

In conclusion (sorry have rambled on) I would suggest you concentrate on his writing and possibly ask for a referral in a few years' time.

seoraemaeul, yes, DS1 is a chatterbox, who loves playing around with words and ideas. He feels very comfortable verbally, and less so physically (he's nervous of heights and climbing up any but the smallest slides at the park, and isn't keen on his bicycle, even with stabilisers) so he's very resistant to trying new things, either because he's scared or thinks he won't be any good.

So we try to encourage him and build up his confidence, but it can take weeks or months to get him to master something new, with a lot of setbacks along the way.

But I would love the tips on improving co-ordination, charlottebrontesaurus - I've been muddling along until now, and with DS1 starting school in September I feel that it would be a good idea to start focusing on dealing with this properly.

thumbwitch, I think you're right that children master one new thing at a time, but I also think that the thing they master first (e.g. talking in DS1's case) is what they feel most comfortable with. Although my theory is shot out of the water by DS2 who spoke even earlier than DS1, walked by the age of one, and is now physically fearless (and more dexterous), and was talking in four-word sentences by 14 months.

Wow!
Relieved and a bit sad that I'm not alone in this one!
ttalloo, I'm not sure there is a correllation between walking/crawling and fine motor skills. DS1 walked at 11 months so was not a late walker. He was a better walker/dancer than he was a talker really.
re the bicycle, we're going to a 'balance bike' for DS1 as they don't have pedals. They look like they would be simpler to use and the transition to a 'normal' bike is apparently quite easy after the balance is mastered. My DS2 sounds like yours btw :) I think that is a second child thing.

I would love your tips too charlottebrontesaurus (great name!!) if you could pm them to me. Anything would help!

Thanks Cath476!

tryingtoleave I love the idea of them developing their fine motor skills through lego. I will let DS1 have more access to the small lego when I can wrench it off DH. You must have been v proud of that camel. I know I would have been.

So glad to see so many responses. I feel so much better about this now and that there is actually something proactive we can do to help DS1.

I have a 4 y-o and a 5 y-o. DS1 was just like your ds before he started school this year. Pre-school got a bit agitated about his handedness, but I'm left-handed and he's a mini-me, so suspected that he might be a leftie too and wasn't too worried. Sure enough, he's now definitely left-handed. Once they start school they do so much more writing than at pre-school that I've found his writing and other fine motor skills have leapt ahead in the last few months.
For the pen grip, I found that giving him his own wee whiteboard and markers has helped enormously - using vertical writing surfaces apparently helps them to grip the pen properly.
ds2 is much the same now, so I'm hoping for equally great things by this time next year

OK wild shot here. How is his balance? Have you tried a balance bike (such as this one Bike . Has he ever tried jumping on a trempoline? Both of these (and other exercises for balance) are very good to help them make progress in many things. It helps (I think) balance better when they play and walk/run better. I know it has nothing to do with fine motor skills, but it helped my DS become more coordinated. Also, can he throw a ball? Overhead? Can he catch? Or even kick a football? 'practicing' these skills does improve their coordination and hand-eye coordination which is important for skills they develop later on such as writing and cutting.