My nearly 4 yr old ds still cries all the time

[queenofsheba]

I'm becoming increasingly concerned about ds. He'll be 4 towards the end of the year but he is still bursting into tears at the smallest thing. That in isolation wouldn't necessarily concern me but it's the frequency with which it is happening.

e.g. every night I read a bedtime story and every night (without fail) he will burst into tears when I get to the end (because he's not getting any more).

Whenever he has friends round, if he plays a game with them and loses, he is inconsolable. He loves sport but recently, we were playing football in the park with a friend (and friend's dad) and this little boy (same age) was quicker than ds so rather than trying harder, he just fell on the ground, literally, in sobs.

It's not attention seeking as such, it is just pure frustration. School have confirmed that this is what they think and as much as they think it is (at the moment) nothing to worry about, they have put it down as an area to work on and to keep an eye on.

He also cannot bear to be pushed around and if he is, he'll burst into tears and sometimes (if he knows the child), he will push back but then doesn't seem to understand where the limit is between acceptable pushing and crushing the other child to death!

Does this sound normal? Is it something that's going to get better? I counted today and we had 10 incidents of sobs (and that's pretty normal).

Crying in competitive situations at age 4 seems absolutely normal to me.

If you are consistent in not changing your mind about more bedtime stories when he cries then this seems more unusual. Is there something in his homelife which is unsettling him at the mo?

no but he has always been this way and in a sense, I think this is what I find frustrating. You would think that after nearly 4 years of the same bedtime routine that he would have cottoned on that when I got to the end of the book (or chapter) that this is the end. I have never waivered so it's not like he's got something to gain by crying.

And in a way, that is what bothers me. I think if he was doing it for attention, I could probably work on it but it seems to be mindless crying without hoping to achieve anything!

I told the school about it and they think some of his frustration came about because his speech couldn't always be understood by other adults (when he was a bit younger) - he spoke very early but his pronounciation is coming a bit late so although he is understandable, he sometimes gabbles his words and doesn't pronounce his hard consonants right all the time. This did knock his confidence a bit especially if he kept getting asked to repeat something he thought he had said perfectly well. They believe this is something that started some of the crying off - he thought he wouldn't be understood so he didn't bother speaking and went straight to crying. We certainly saw that at home but I believe we are past this stage, his speech is a bit better but we still seem to be stuck (if you see what I mean).

What would happen if you told him he could have an extra story if he doesn't cry?

he would stop sobbing (but would probably carry on crying softly) but probably cry fully after the end of that one

he is a sensitive soul bless him but it's starting to worry me a bit now.

thanks for replying by the way!

Is he in reception right now? If so I think this is an extremely stressful and tiring year.

Sounds a bit like my ds who was 4 in July. He has been worse with this sort of thing since we had another baby (she is nearly 10 months) and although he adores her, he does seem to do more of the attention seeking kind of thing, like crying. He also says things like 'you've upset me now' or 'I'm fed up'. It's pure attention seeking.

He has got over the crying when losing games (mostly) by getting used to the 'some you win, some you lose' idea but he still sometimes cries when he doesn't get his own way.

DS is MUCH worse when he's tired or when he hasn't eaten enough (which makes him tired).

Is your ds always likely to cry or are there times when he's ok ?

I have a sensitive 4 year old who has turned into a confident little man, now dealing with reception very well despite being the youngest in his class.

What did I do? I concentrated on his strenghts, not his weaknesses. He has always been very articulate so loads of stories and books. He loves art and finds it a real outlet so always do drawing every day and try and find the time to do other things. Finding things he is good at has helped compensate for the things he isn't good at such as physical co-ordination. That has made him much more confident.

When he was younger he was the sort of toddler who would not leave your side at playgroup. I just slowly lengthened the lead, so when he was playing well i would just wander a few yards away. When he saw I had moved, then he would play happily, then I would come back and play with him. That worked well and over a summer when he was 2 I made a real difference to his confidence ( on mat leave with no.2 ).

Not suggesting that you can do that, but you need to find a way to make him more resilient.

Also with him I found that a very structured nursery school suited him very well, as he found the routine very reassuring.

he's in the nursery class (at a state school) - he was in pre-school last year.

There are definitely times when it is worse and yes, tiredness is certainly one of those times. He was a fantastic baby but when he hit about 9 months (when he started wanting to be able to do thing like walk) he started crying all the time. If I dared to go to a playgroup with my older child, he would scream the place down and really, he only calmed down at places like this when he was about 2.

But I really can't think of times when he is OK. He cried today when I let my older child get in the car first, he cried when I said we couldn't go to Macdonalds, he cried when I told him he had to stop playing cricket and come in for tea.

I mean, I know those crying incidents are typical for children of this age but it's just the fact that he doesn't seem to be getting better at all and it's not as though he doesn't think I mean what I say because I'm not the sort of person that gives way because of tears.

kaz, yes ds sounds very like that. Ds is a bright boy - he can practically read already (a mixture of the leap pad, hearing my older child's reading books and sheer determination on his part) and is desperate to learn proper maths (he LOVES numbers) but in a way I am holding him back. I really really do not want him to be bored at school so I've not encouraged him 'academically'. He will be old for his year so still has a whole year of nursery before he starts reception. I'm worried if I let him develop these skills now (and numbers are what he loves) that when he starts reception it will be an added frustration for him.

Even though you don't give way, do you give him sympathy/cuddles ?

I'm not saying it's wrong to do so and I'm sure I'm guilty of doing this with my ds which probably perpetuates the behaviour but sometimes just telling him 'give up, it's not working lad' seems to stop the tears quicker than the cuddles do. Must admit I'm never sure whether to be 'hard line' about it or not though.

I also have not bothered about reading etc.. but of course DS1 is the youngest in the year. I hate to imagine what things would have been like if he had a september birthday.

I do find buying new books -inspirational and have a huge collection. I buy factual books for much older kids with great pictures, he just laps them up. Have to go have curry now, but if I think of anything else I'll get back to you.

thanks kaz.

Yes, I know what you mean witchy - when he cries for something silly, I don't hug him but I say firmly (not harshly) that 'crying will not make me change my mind'.

He is in general a very loving, kind and cuddly boy and is always hugging dh and I and always one of the first children to worry about another child if they fall over/get hurt.

We had terrible problems getting DS1 to pooh in the toilet and it was only when he started getting stars for correct poohing that it changed over night.

Could you try giving him reward stars for not crying. Maybe a morning or day when he doesn't cry he gets a star? By the sounds of it it is a habit he has got into in and needs some assistance getting out of. Just like DS1 pooing in his pants every day - yeuch.
Engage him in the process, ask why he is crying next time he does - help him find the words to express his feelings ie: he doesn't like losing, he wants another book etc... Show him alternative ways of expressing his feelings and reward him for dealing with his feelings maturely. The more I think about it, he sounds like a very bright boy who is having problems expressing his feelings.

The other thing I do is tell him that it is ok to feel sad because he has lost, or is frightened. Validate his feelings, make him feel like his feelings matter.

The curry also included a couple of glasses of wine so apologies if rambling.

kaz, that is so weird because my ds also had/has trouble pooing in the loo. It took ages - months and months - for him to stop pooing in his pants. He's been fine for a while but we went on holiday to France for a few days this summer and we ate rubbish food most days and this bunged him up - he had one bad, sore poo and only today, for the first time since August has he gone to poo in the loo willingly.

They sound very very similar. I think I will try your approach. He does love being praised and loves anything positive so I will start a star chart and aim to reward him for non-crying incidents.

I'll let you know how it goes. Sounds like we have v similar little lads!

Good luck.

As a start you can explain to him that you are going to read him a book as per normal before bed and that if he doesn't burst into tears at the end he will get a star. If he manages 5 stars in a row then he will get small treat. When he manages it, give him loads of praise and tell him how you understand that he is sad that the stories have ended but that he has behaved very grown up etc...

Once he has got the idea of that then you can use it to tackle other incidents when he is likely to cry. Start small and then work out from there.

Actually DS1 wasn't too concerned about the treats he just liked the stars.