'daddy shouts a lot' says 2.6 year old dd (very long).

[Caththerese1973]

Hi
my ex-dp has access visits with dd, 2.6, overnight one night a week. Today I went to visit him by myself and when I told her later, she said 'was he cross?'
I felt a bit concerned so I asked: 'do you like going to daddy's?' And she said, 'yes, but he shouts a lot.' She also said he was 'cross'.
Then I asked her if he ever smacked her and she said 'yes'. But I am inclined to doubt this, as she frequently accuses ME of smacking her (which I never do, honestly!)
Ex dp does have a bad temper and can be pretty surly. My dd said he got angry at one point during the last visit because he couldn't find the nappies. She also said he took a toy off her because she put it on top of the air conditioner. THAT story rings true, since he used to blow his top about me putting coffee cups on top of this stupid air cooler he has.
I have checked out the legal situation and apparently our access arrangement is the standard one. According to the legal aid lawyer I spoke to, no court would deny my ex access or restrict his visits UNLESS there was probable cause to think he was physically or sexually abusing dd, or putting her in unsafe situations (by being drunk or on drugs, for example, or by having unsuitable people around her). If she is of a certain age, she can refuse to go to him herself, but she is not yet old enough for her feelings to count in terms of the law, it seems.
I did mention to this lawyer that he smokes marijuana, but the lawyer said that even if he smokes, this in itself will not affect his access rights! I couldn't believe it!
I am sure he is not physically or sexually abusing her, or exposing her to actual physical danger (and I'm pretty sure that he would not smoke a joint unless she had gone off to bed).
But I am so worried about the effect his angry demeanour might have upon our child.
My daughter USUALLY lets me leave her with ex dp without making a fuss, and even seems pleased to see him (sometimes). But last time I rang her at dp's place to say good night, she asked if she could come home to me, and I felt heartbroken.
I do want her to have a relationship with him:I know he genuinely loves her. I just think she is too young for this overnight business.
I am seriously considering simply not dropping her off there tomorrow, although I know from most people's point of view this would be a terrible violation of his rights as a father. And it would probably result in him seeking a legal mediation.
I should emphasise that dd conveyed all this stuff about Dad being 'cross' to me in a rather casual way, and on the whole she seems happy and normal. I do know, however, that she gets anxious about visiting him (however much she apparently settles down once the visit is underway).
I just want to protect her. Let's face it - I found this bloke too angry and moody to live with myself! It seems unfair that my baby has to spend so much time by herself with this anal retentive, bad-tempered man - just so that I don't have to anymore.
I feel really guilty in all directions. Not least of all because, to be honest, I do enjoy having one night off a week! But I would sacrifice this in a flash if I thought she was really suffering during her stays with her dad.
Any thoughts?

Don't be silly. Sorry but this sounds like issues to do with yourself rather than your dd. I have a very bad temper too, but don't think my kids suffer too much because of it. We all lose our rag from time to time. DD tells me that I shout too much and she doesn't like it when I'm angry. Can you imagine someone taking her away from me because of this?

You might be all calm and rational, but not everyone can be like this. My dh is also the opposite of me, very calm and even-tempered. It's who we are. Sure I try not to shout or lose my temper, but sometimes little things can have me climbing the walls!

I wouldn't even consider restricting access because of this. It would damage your dd more not to see her dad, then it would do to be subjected to his occasional outbursts. And just think what this would do to him!

I hope you think again.

Yes but I'm talking about 'normal' anger here. To be honest my ex hit me a few times. I am only going on my instincts about his obvious love for our dd to tell me that he wouldn't hit her too. I feel sure he would not. But he can be very scary when he's angry, even if he doesn't get physical.

sorry, I meant: 'Im NOT talking about "normal" anger'.

it sounds horrid that she has to stay overnight. I would hate it.

Ok, but you have to look at this calmly and not fly off the handle. ATM he only has her overnight once a week,is this all the access he has?
How about you telling him what your dd has said to you and tell him your concerns. I should imagine that he knows he has a bad temper, it has already cost him his partner and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to lose his daughter over it either. Suggest he gets help, you can even tell him that if he does get help, perhaps the access can be changed so that he gets to see her more often if he wants to?

I think you do have to consider the legal position although as you say it doesn't seem fair that dd should have to go if she dreads it.

But, on the other hand, kids are often like that. My ds always begs me not to take him to nursery the night before, but once he gets there he is happy to run off and play. If your dd really hated it she might object more and exhibit more anxiety over it, which I'm sure you would sense.

I'm sure it must be very difficult for all children with separated parents to have two homes and to have to leave the main carer once a week, with whom they are settled, in order to maintain a relationship with the other parent. Ex-dp does sound horrible but he is still her father and unfortunately lots of children have less than ideal parents which they do have to spend their own lives dealing with. I think the best you can do, unless he really is abusive or unreasonable, is to help her deal with him.

Hopefully someone with more experience and wisdom will come along soon.

Thanks for the symapthy Enid. Rhubarb: it is sadly impossible for us to communicate anymore. If I told him what dd said about his behaviour, he would only accuse me of trying to start another fight. he would only get MORE angry and that's the last thing I want.

You know, I'm pretty sure that if grandma phoned dd after I'd shouted at her, she probably tell grandma she wanted to live with her! If she usually seems pleased to see him, and he is pleased to see her, then it would seem unfair to restrict access any more. One night a week isn't much is it?

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Sounds good to me lynny, if you can talk to him at all, just ask how things are going in general, is he finding it easy? Tough? Is there anything more you can do? Does she have everything she needs when she goes? As long as you don't get his back up then he might tell you if he finds it a struggle.

Thanks lynny and everyone else. It's nice to be told that I am a good mum! Sometimes I feel really bad about leaving dp because of our dd and the strain it has put on her. So that's a really nice thing to hear!
Rhubarb: you are coming from a more commonsensical point of view and I hear what you are saying. Even if it's not that pleasant an experience she is not actually in danger and will no doubt develop her own ways of dealing her dad. He doesn't have just the night with dd, by the way, he has more than 24 hours. I drop her off at 12 and pick her up late the next afternoon usually.
Maybe it's just my anger talking, but I think that's quite enough access for a guy who has demonstrated himself to be incapable of controlling his rage with his wife, and who has exposed his baby to more than one ugly scene (pushing and shoving me, doing bizarre things like moving furniture around) in the past.
I AM very angry with him though. Sometimes I wish I could be more forgiving....but isn't it funny, the longer I am away from him, the more I remember negative incidents and outrageous acts on his part! Not that I am a saint or anything myself....I am very difficult, and sometimes doubt that I will have a relationship that will work. Aside from my child, I am quite solitary and happy just to potter around at home and concentrate on work. I am proud to say that recently passed my doctorate in literature! (hope this doesn't sound too show-offy). Ex-DP thinks he 'subsidised' my PhD. But he rarely worked outside the home while I was studying - he was doing a PHD too and worked from home on a scholarship. Whenever he actually had to spend a day teaching he was always in a vile mood afterwards, shouting, critcising, claiming that I did not respect him, that I had never 'really' worked, etc etc.
I have had very little interest in sex since I had a baby, which caused HUGE tensions between myself and dp. He was exually demanding and very sensitive to rejection on that point. But am I wrong or is it completely unacceptable to feel like you have to constantly have sex with someone when you have no desire, and not only no desire but a truckload of rage?
Anyway, i digress.... sorry.

Easy to see why you are so angry. Just keep an eye on things, you can always go to mediation if things get too bad.

I do occasionally shout at DS - not sustained shouting, and not in a wild furious roar around the house - but on Sunday DP asked him what he was planning to take to nursery for show and tell. He said 'Mummy' and Dp said "what will you 'tell' about her?", and DS said "that she shouts at me"! Of course I was horrified and mortified - but in actuality I hadn't even snapped at DS for well over a week, nor shouted for 2.

I am not surprised you feel anxious, I would hate DS to be away from me regularly like that, and you aren't there, so you never quite know. But unless she is diging her heels in and refusing to go to his house, I wouldn't worry too much about one report of being cross. But tell ex that she said it - without accusing him.

Monitor closely, without 'pumping'? (she's old enough to know what to say to get you going!)