Mothers of boys please ready...3 3/4 old DS dramatic change in behaviour...help needed!

[futurity]

I remember reading many threads about how boys behaviour change as they head towards 4 but the archive is down and I need some reasurring words! In the last 2 days DS has kicked me and hit me and tonight we had a major scene with him not wanting to go to bed.

To elaborate..the kicking was when he lashed out and I told him if he does it again then he will go on the bottom step so he looked at me and did it again. After 3 mins on the step he apologised. Last night he hit me and DH when we were trying to put him to bed and we did put him on the bottom step and again after 3 mins I went to him and asked him to say sorry and he wouldn't but then when I said I was going to leave again he apologised and we made up and he apologised again before bed.

This evening has been awful...bed time rountine was going normally and then he started the whole "I need a drink" "I need this" I need that...I don't want to go to bed..I want to sleep with you...then he started hitting DH saying "put me on the bottom step. So (being a watcher of Supernanny!) I did the thing where we put him back to bed with kind words...the next time we were firmer..and the next time we said nothing and then kept that up. This took ages and I could hear him calming down (despite lots of "I've hurt my hand!" and bizarelly "I'm a teenager!" comments from his room). Then he said "I can't breathe" which got to us as last christmas he had croup and went to hospital because he couldn't breath well and he remembers that. So of course we went in and after various word games from us calmed him down ("oh you need the ambulance then!?" etc etc) and he got into bed.

Anyway..if you are still following this...what on earth do we do tomorrow night if he does the "I can't breathe" thing again as I am worried he is going to latch on to that as a guaranteed way to get our attention.

I think I know why all this is happening..things have been tense round here recently due to job stresses (we are self-employed) and even though DH and I get grumpy with each other we make up in the evening but of course he doesn't really see that. Also DS2 is now 8 1/2 months and getting alot more attention from me but more noticeably Daddy which may be affecting him. DS2 is also waking very early which is making me and DH tired and grumpy and I know I don't spend enough quality time with DS1 and am trying to work on that (thought we managed alot of stuff today together but it is early days and one day won't fix things I know!).

Also there is the age thing/testerone boost which I have read so much about.

Anyway...waffling on...any advice/experiences gratefully received.

title should read "Mothers of boys please read"..too tired to check!

My quiet sensitive 4 year old has been a monster over the last few months. Okay he has also had to deal with moving, starting school and his tearaway younger brother.

Think he is starting to come out of it, but there has definitely has been a change in his behaviour.

By the sounds of it you have to deal with as well and don't underestimate little sibling getting into his stuff. Is he crawling yet ?

mmmmmm - no helpful advice really, just sympathy. DS1 will be 5 on Halloween and sorry to say still has days of going through this. A lot of it is definitely attention seeking - he now has a 6 mth old brother who takes up a lot of my time and has just started school so lots of different things going on. All I do is just persevere with the naughty step/mat thing, banning him from some of his favorite things ie. TV, remove his toys etc. Most of the time I feel I'm banging my head against a brick wall, but keep going in the vain hope that one day it will sink in!

Sorry not to be more constructive but remember you are not alone in this

I can understand what you're saying. I notice the behaviour of my ds's is badly affected by stresses between dh and me, no matter how hard we try to conceal them. Actually he's way better behaved when dh isn't here but that's between you and me.

My ds who's 3 3/4 has problems surrounding bed. The latest thing is to say his bed is too hard.
Bed is the time when thoughts come up and you're all alone etc etc. It can be really hard. I remember it myself as a child.

Also, I don't know if you've heard of 'The Fearful Fours'? They have night frights at this age. My oldest ds (5) had this at 3.5 - 4, but is fine now.

As for a solution, it might help to try to get him to confide in you about what's happening to make him not want to go to bed. Then you can enter his world and tackle whatever is bothering him on his terms.
I think telling him off might be counter productive.

Could you start the whole bedtime bit slightly earlier, be prepared to read more stories and really wind him down?
Also, I find it helps to get them out in the afternoon, even if it's just a half hour walk, because they're more tired.

Swimming gets them extra tired.

Have 2 DS's of 3 & 6, so know where your coming from futurity. You're doing the right things, it just takes time to kick in. If you are boringly predictable in your response to his behaviour then he'll eventually bore of doing it because he loses the entertaining reaction from both parents. The trick is to make sure both parents are handling issues the same way- I always have to nudge DH into action as he lets them progress too far down the road of bad behaviour before he stops them.If it's any help DS1 went through this at the same age as yours & is a lovely, gentle boy now. DS2 is just starting to emerge out the other side of it, but still has relapses!!

Hey just remembered, I was at a friends for coffee last week & her son of 3.3 was constantly hitting her when he didn't get his own way. So alot of them do it & we just have to thole it until it subsides. This may make you feel a bit better

Only a quick thought, but may be something to bear in mind - you say DS2 is 8 1/2 months - I noticed a marked change in my DS (3.3yrs) when DD started crawling at 10.5months. I'm sure this is not the reason for the change, and may of course be limited to my bundle but maybe a contributing factor IYSWIM?

Futurity, we are going through a similar thing at the mo. ds1 is nearly 4 and ds2 is 11 months, into everything and needing a lot of supervision. They say 4 yo boys get a surge of testosterone which makes them behave more aggressively, and this does seem to be happening to ds1. I also think it is a lot to do with the amount of attention ds2 requires at the moment. I'm trying to ignore the boom' bang' stuff (guns etc) but obviously if things actually get physical he goes on the naughty step. As for sticking to the morning and bedtime routine ds1 has become the master of prevarication, so we have introduced pocket money. He gets 5p each morning and 5p each evening. For this he has to co-operate (e.g. get dressed, clean teeth, go to loo and get shoes and coat on when asked in the morning, help tidy toys and behave well at bathtime and go to bed and stay there in the evening). For each misdemeanour, 1p is taken away. This has really helped with the routine, so much so that we have had time to play for 5-10 mins before leaving for pre-school in the mornings (usually a chasing game around the house to burn off a bit of energy). Bedtime has been less of an issue for us but it might help with the I can't breathe' thing if he knows he will lose money if he gets up again. For other misbehaviour I sometimes remove toys instead of using the naughty step (i.e. if you do that again I shall remove x'), which seems to work quite well.

HTH.

Many thanks for all your replies. I try and get out in the afternoon to burn off some energy..yesterday we were at the park with friends all afternoon. In fact he has done quite a lot of physical things this week so may in fact be too tired...quiet day today I think!

Yes..DS2 is nearing the crawling stage which I think may be adding to it all..suddenly his baby brother (who he does seem to love!) isn't the tiny baby any more and his train track is seemingly under threat!

DH and I need to be consistent...it hasn't really been happening so far...DH wants to shout at him and does and I want to do the whole bottom step/ignoring thing like last night with the bed thing (told DH not to enter into conversation with him but he couldn't help himself!).Had chat last night though and DH agrees to follow my lead.

I love that whole money idea as he loves money and playing with coins/counting etc. In fact I told a friend about the old pasta jar the other day as she is having issues with her daughter (same age) but I think money would work better with DS. It will also stop the issue of him asking to be put on the naughty step..it's difficult to know what to do when he actually says "put me on the naughty step!" (which he did because he didn't want to go to bed and he knew it would keep him up longer).

Is taking toys away for really bad behaviour then would you say? What happens when you do take it away...how do they earn it back?

I really feel like I am in an episode of Supernanny or Little Angels and am trying to remember all the things they suggest! I got the books out of the library recently..I think I will be doing that again!!

I think this is entirely normal behaviour - probably a mix of him picking up on household stress, and normal changes of the age.

Our big trick for reducing bedtime hassle is this: If he calls for you, and you know it's not a real problem, remember what toys he has with him in his bed, or near his bed, and say "Ok, all this noise is keeping your C3PO awake. If I have to come in again, I will have to take C3PO away. Do you want me to come in?"

You generally have to take a toy away once or twice, until they get the message. No shouting, no anger, no arguing. (And I don't take a toy away if he calls me up because he's out of water, or has to throw up, or something else that is a genuine concern. He knows this.)

Obviously, this doesn't work if your kid doesn't go to bed with a wild collection of stuff.

well so far today he has been very good...but i imagine we will have problems tonight when both of us are here so will try to be consistent and make sure DH backs me up and will have a textbook calming bed time!

Successful bed time ...he got a bit hyper in the bath but I stayed calm..also when we were downstairs getting milk he was going "i want to run around and play" and I again stayed calm and got us all upstairs again. Actually..one telling moment was in the bathroom when I had got him out and dressed and was talking to him and playing with DS2 at the same time who was still in the bath and he went "OH!" and I said "what's up?" and he said "I love you being here with me" and gave me a hug...was v cute! I did the whole bath/winding down bit without DH..I banished him as I thought he would wind both boys up too much! Need some wine now I think!

I have a sensitive 4 year old who has turned into a confident little man, now dealing with reception very well despite being the youngest in his class.

What did I do? I concentrated on his strenghts, not his weaknesses. He has always been very articulate so loads of stories and books. He loves art and finds it a real outlet so always do drawing every day and try and find the time to do other things. Finding things he is good at has helped compensate for the things he isn't good at such as physical co-ordination. That has made him much more confident.

When he was younger he was the sort of toddler who would not leave your side at playgroup. I just slowly lengthened the lead, so when he was playing well i would just wander a few yards away. When he saw I had moved, then he would play happily, then I would come back and play with him. That worked well and over a summer when he was 2 I made a real difference to his confidence ( on mat leave with no.2 ).

Not suggesting that you can do that, but you need to find a way to make him more resilient.

Also with him I found that a very structured nursery school suited him very well, as he found the routine very reassuring.

Ooops posted on wrong thread.

Well done. Consistency is the key, with whatever system you find works. A few weeks ago we were all over the place, didn't have a system for dealing with it and things were going really pear-shaped. At the time dh was under a lot of stress due to work and ds1 picked up on this and it definitely made his behaviour even more challenging so I think your ds1 is probably reacting to that too.

Anyway, re toys, I just find the money works for the morning/evening routine things. I did try the threat of taking 5p away again for other things but it just didn't seem to work, so one day (when he was pushing ds2 around because ds2 was interfering with ds1's toys) I tried removing a toy and it worked much better. Re giving them back, I suppose you have to decide on a length of time you keep it for. Also, if there's something you really want him to do and you think he might be bolshy about it you could say he could earn it back quicker by doing x or y.

One other thought...the thing about him liking you to be there, that is exactly the sort of comment ds1 has been making to me. I think he feels really pushed out, something to bear in mind. Also, he loves everything to be a game. It's infuriating when you just want to get them ready, but in that case making a routine thing into a bit of a game works really well (e.g. `I think I can get upstairs to the bathroom first'...cue frantic scramble on ds1's part ).