Is my friend's DD's behaviour normal and if not should I tell her?

[WinlessChunder]

I had a good friend's DD (age 4.5) to tea and overnight Friday night as a favour. I have a DS the same age so I'm aware of what to expect but her behaviour did shock me somewhat.

1. Almost straight away she shoved everything off my coffee table onto the floor and started jumping up and down on the coffee table.
2. Then she took a fragile vase from the window sill and started running around with it.
3. She asked to do some drawing. She took the felt pens and rammed them into the paper so hard the nibs disappeared inside.
4. She asked for a drink. I gave her one in a sealed cup with a straw. She took one sip, said she didn't like it so I asked for it back but she just looked at me and threw the cup on the floor.
5. At dinner, she took one bite out of each chip then threw the other half of the chip on the floor. For every chip.
6. When she'd finished dinner she shoved the plate violently across the table, spilling the remaining food everywhere and just got down.

There was more but you get the picture!

Do you think there's a possibility she was playing up as she was away from home without her parents? I don't think she was pissed off about being left as she was excited about the 'sleepover'.

My friend has been told by her DD's nursery teacher that DD is displaying signs of possible ADHD. Friend is adamant that she's just 'bored' and I have backed her up as I've never seen any evidence from her DD....until now. Do you think the teacher could be right and if so, should I mention it to my friend?

That's difficult, presumably she doesn't throw her food around at home?
IIWY, I'd mention it in a joking way 'Samantha didn't seem to like my chips'.
I'm not sure what else you can do TBH apart from not having her again.

Difficult, as it sounds like your friend is already in denial about her daughter's behaviour.

I do think that you should say something, the little girl's behaviour is not normal, imo. Not saying that she has SN, as that is for experts to decide, but her actions sound quite angry and aggressive.

Perhaps you could phrase it gently, "I was a bit concerned about your DD's behaviour when she was here. Is she often so volatile?"

If your friend blocks conversation then drop the subject.

My good lord.

No, it's not normal. This is not a child who is 'just plain naughty' TBH, because even a very very naughtily behaved 4 year old would at least be reticent at first in a non-parent's care.

Try to look beyond the behavior for a sec - did she seem stressed? Unhappy? Or happy but badly behaved?

TBH, if she is in denial as MmeLindt mentioned (which I think she probably is)I think you should tread carefully before you start telling your friend about her DDs behaviour, which is, clearly, not 'normal'. However, as the nursery have already mentioned it to her and she offers up the 'bored' excuse, I think there's a danger of you coming across to your good friend as a bit smug and 'ganging up' on her. I have experience of this from a personal situation - A friend's DD had someone to play some years ago and it was hideous, pulling up plants, jumping on car bonnet, fighting and she was torn over what to do. She didn't mention it and in time the little girl was diagnosed as ADHD, by the relevant professionals. I think she probably needs your support right now. But it is a difficult one!! x

sorry but i think she just sounds badly behaved. teh felt tip thing wouldn't bother me. the throwing things and jumping on the table is naughty and at 4.5 she should know this. how are her parents WRT discipline?

i certainly would tell her mum that she misbehaved terribly while you had her. but TBH i wouldnm't mention ADHD or anything. i would be furious if my chidl behaved like that in someone else's home. i would be amazed though, if this behaviour came as a shock to mum. you dont get to be that brave and bold just be entering a new house.

Bloody hell - what a nightmare. I think I would probably leave it for the teachers to deal with and hopefully the mother will start to get the picture. In my experience trying to tell a parent that their child's behaviour is not normal, never ends well. Remember, to her mother, it probably IS normal behaviour (unless she has other children to compare her to). In the meantime, avoid any playdates and if your friend asks you to have her again, perhaps you could say "well I didn't think she really enjoyed being here last time"!!!!!

I agree BooyHoo - she does sound very badly behaved and under normal circumstances I wouldn't hesitate to tell Mum - and indeed expect to be told should any of my kids behave remotely badly whilst in someone else's house. The only reason I said to think twice is the Mum is probably feeling really vulnerable anyway with nursery's comments, I just think the timing might be off. I'm guessing you don't know any families affected by ADHD and pass it all off as bad behaviour, not personally affected but a family very close to me have 2 beautifully behaved kids and one that was different from day 1 and they have been thru hell getting to the bottom of it all. They needed people's support, not necessarily cold hard truth all the time. Like you said - I'm also sure it won't be a shock, so would it be necessary? :)

i have a cousin with ADHD and i know it is hard to be told by people that your child is naughty when you know it is part of the condition, but i will honestly be shocked if the mum of this child hasn't witnessed her child behave like that herself. and if she has then i don't think she really can take offence at OP confirming that her DD was naughty.

if it was my son and i was on the fence as to whether my dc's behaviour was normal or not then i would appreciate a friend's opinion on it. fresh eyes can help you admit when you need to start seeking help/ a diagnosis. when you are with your dcs day in, day out, you often get used to how they behave and often don't see enough of otehr children to compare teh behaviour.

i firmly believe that good friends tell you what you need to hear and not just what you want to hear. i would be annoyed with a friend who had had that sort of a day/night with my dc and felt she couldn't tell me.

you could just ask her in passing "what is she normally like about eating/sitting down for meals/general behaviour and what's your way of dealing with it?"

Sounds very difficult... Have you seen her behave like that with her mum?

I've looked after a lot of peoples kids and some are naughty and some are SN, but usually the parents are aware that they have a tendency to be a bit crazy so you can say it gently and it shouldn't be a massive shock to the mum.

I would tell her but in a fairly low key way ie "just thought I should mention that I told X off when she was aroung as she did ABC". That is not normal behaviour fora 4.5 year old. If a child did that in my house, I would never invite them back unless I knew there was a reason for their behaviour. Your friend is not doing her child any favours if she does not recognise the fact that there may be a problem.

There's a couple of different slants on it for you OP! I suppose it depends on what you're comfortable with. I do have to agree that you may not be doing her any favours TBH, I admitted in my first post it is a difficult one! On reflection I would be gutted if my friend felt unable to tell me, but I just feel so sorry for your friend, I suppose if you went down the route of never inviting her round again - you would owe it to her to tell her why.

Goosey's 'in' to the conversation is a really good one actually - if I've had to tell a child off I always tell the mum about it (mostly because I don't want them saying i've been a horrible witch without any warning!!) so therefore I always tend to report any bad or difficult behaviour in that way. But also say what has been good and what they enjoyed etc. And I would expect it back from people who had my dds. If people just say 'she's been fine' then I read between the lines anyway!!!

It's soon enough after the event for you to still raise it now but if you leave it and then raise it it might be weird.

Also, if she does end up accepting that her dd may have some behavioural issues, like ADHD, then it will be hugely helpful for her to have the perspective of someone who has looked after her - my friend whose son has asbergers asked me to come to his statementing meeting so that I could give examples of how I dealt with his behaviour and what triggered him. So openness whilst difficult, is the best kind of support you can give her.

She sounds very very over-excited.

Vase: she's a bit young to realise what fragile means.

I think I would tell the friend she was "a bit of a handful" and describe (in a tone of "you may want to know" not one of anger) some of the incidents (like jumping on table, throwing drink on the floor, shoving plate about). Leave it at that.

I agree with gooseyloosey and would probably bring it up. Sn or not as a mother id like to know how my child had been/behaved when not with me. I'm surprised the mother didn't ask initially? When ever I collect ds from a playdate I always ask how he's been, what they've enjoyed playing etc. just so I understand where he's coming from when he chats to me about things that have happened.

Agree this is not"normal" behaviour, particularly as she is so young and not in her own home - most children understand at that age that this is not acceptable behaviour - unless of course she does have SN. You don't say what her reaction was when you told her off - and did you do it in a joky way or with a "cross face"? It is possible she realised she could get away with repeating bad behaviour if your reaction was a bit casual and she was pushing your boundaries?

this doesn't sound normal! i think i would say something.

i have myself a DD with special needs and for a long time I was told by friends, professionals & nursery that DD is fine, just a bi quirky.

with hindsight, i would have loved to have friends who shared their concerns with me (I now know they had concerns, just didn't want to make me worried) rather than brushing my worries off.

i am sure your friend will have deep down some worries about her DD. it can be really difficult for a mum to admit to herself that her DC might have certain difficulties.

as your friend trusts you enough to leave DD with you for sleepover, I suppose you two are close.

talk to her!