Just about had it, and don't know what to do next.......HELP!!

[batey]

Right then, it's my adorable little dd2 AGAIN!! She's 3 1/2.And the problem is mealtimes and eating-lack of.

Brielfy, as dh works from home we have 95% of our meals together, with dd1 who's almost 6. Our "rules" are your normal polite eating manners i.e. use your cutlery (as best they can with their ages), sit while you eat, wait until we've all finished before you leave, ask before you get down, don't talk with your mouth full etc. Dd1 has always enjoyed her food and always eaten quickly (even faster since she started school with the race to the playground). Dd2 and I have struggled on and off with her food ptetty much since weaning. She does enjoy her food and can eat at a reasonable pace when she wants to. She is easily distracted, takes a long time to conclude a "story" if she's chatting with dd1. And, to me, it feels like she'll do anything rather than eat.

I've tried:- persauding her until I'm blue in the face, offering tasty puddings or sweets when she's finished,the "big girl" tac-tic, etc etc. But lately, I can't do it anymore, it's boring saying the same thing every meal,I'm fed up, she's old enough to feed herself and eat a reasonable meal without me pushing her.

So this week, I've tried to ignore her if she's not eating (tonight she was singing on and off) but praise her when she does. We don't wait for her now before pudding,and I take the plates away when the rest of us are done (obviously not if she's tucking in). Trouble is, she's still not eating and it's driving me mad. Tonight she said she'd finished after 2 mouthfuls, said "I go garden play, come back in a minute, eat dinner". Well that's a no-no. I wouldn't let dd1 do that. So she ended up on the stairs screaming as I wouldn't agree to her plan.

Am I doing the right thing, what else can I do???
HELP PLEASE!!!!

P.S. she dosn't get snacks in between unless she's finished her meals.

Yes we have had this !
Our rules seem to be very much as yours, our problems similar. This worked for us. When he was going very slow I'd put the kitchen timer on for 10mins. and said I was taking his plate away when it went off. If it was empty he could have his pudding if it still had food on it then he could then get down and play ... no negatives used. He could see the minutes ticking away. sometimes it worked, some times the timer would go off to be followed by an immediate wail. If there was food left I cheerfully told him he could now play, not OTT but not showing I was bothered. This has solved the problem, we sometimes use it agian but not often.

Good luck.

HI Batey, my dd is 2 and I do sometimes have the same problem. Quick question for you, do you think she is underweight or doing ok ? If she is doing ok I would say don't stress about it hard though it is and stick to your guns. I think you are doing everything right. If she doesn't eat don't make a big deal but don't offer her anything else until the next mealtime. Obviously if this goes on for long then perhaps you will have to rethink but Im sure it won't go on more than a couple of mealtimes because she will be so hungry and that will take over. You could always try the old fashioned method of giving her the same meal for her next meal / until she eats it !! Im not sure of the food hygiene with this one though but my grandparents used to swear by it !! Probably won't need to resort to this though. Good luck

Mummysurfer, that sounds worth a go! Let's face it, the way I feel at the moment anything's worth a go .

Tillysmummy, she's not "underweight" as such. Although she's always been a skinny one. I know I shouldn't stress about it too. But I do worry about her and food. I know she uses it as a control thing, and I know it won't work if I don't give her something by which she CAN control. But it's hard sometimes (most of the time lately). Especially with the time constraints now we're back to school with dd1, she needs time to do her reading/spellings and time to play before bathtime kicks in. And I'm fed up of spending that time watching painful mouthful after painful mouthful go into dd2. Sorry, moan moan.....

batey - I was and am still a really slow eater unless it is really super delicious and I am absolutely starving. I was a big chatterbox (ok, still am!) and just seem to get full quickly. I drive friends potty with my slowness. I've always been slim but never skinny and my mum said she just didn't worry.

I am pregnant at the moment and eating well but previously I couldn't really be bothered. Fortunately I have had great meals cooked by my mum and now by DH.

What I'm trying to say is that I shouldn't worry, don't let it get to you and become an issue - just grit your teeth and keep going with the same routine. Your DD has clearly picked up on the fact that mealtimes are a social occasion and enjoys them!

It sounds like you're doing a great job.

Thanks for the reassurance. I'll continue on then, but I will try the timer thing. Maybe a star charts worth another go too? Thing is with dd2 is she's really not bothered about puds, she'll take it or leave it. Whereas dd1 would do anything for apple crumble and custard!!!

If you make an issue with mealtimes then your kids will just play up to it. I mean, how often do your children get to have mum, dad and siblings all sat around the same table, no distractions? It's just too much for them! They have your undivided attention so of course they want to tell you what they did at nursery, what games they are playing, etc etc. My dd is no different, she tells us what has happened to her dolls that day, what she will do tomorrow, she will even make funny noises and try out new faces because she knows that she has our attention whilst we are sat there. I would be tempted to say let her too! Why should mealtimes be this formal occasion? Why can't they be a kind of family get-together? Does it really matter if she's late finishing her meal?

However they can take it one step too far and start messing around of course. What I would do then, is to simply dish out everyone's pudding, and then when you've all finished, retire to the living room leaving her alone with her meal. If she is really making a fuss, saying she doesn't want it, then ask her to have 2 more spoonfuls before pudding. Be strict on this too, you don't want to deprive her of pudding, just to know that you are still in control and she is not. Then give her a pudding but leave her at the table still.

What I wouldn't do is to cajole her, bribe her, punish her, etc because all of this is giving her extra attention. Make the rules and stick with them. Just be careful you aren't making too many rules, children will be children after all!

We have the same problem with a two year old boy who seems genuinely uninterested in food. Now he's out of a high chair he also does the two mouthfuls and wandering off trick ( doesn't do that for his two day a week nanny, just for me) and I end up following him round the room shoving mouthfuls in as I'm so anxious for him to eat (he's also skinny). I can't exactly make him stay in his chair though I've tried to put him back on it and threatened the naughty step. Last w/e cos my dh couldn't stand the screaming he ended up having both tea time meals in the bath where he ate v well!! We also have a dd who has only just started eatng well (aged 4) and I agree it's not fair on her to let him get away with bad behaviour but he's too little to bribe and I do want him to eat otherwise he's up all night demanding milk. Most of me thinks I should just do whatever it takes to get some food down him and accept that it's a phase that will pass, but the rest of me thinks it may never pass if I don't try and get some kind of routine/ control?
advice welcome

Batey, your rules sound very sensible and very much like ours. I would suggest sticking to them and struggle on and I'm sure that she will get there. My dd who is 2 sounds very similar to your dd and I sympathise with how you feel. It is so frustrating and wearing repeating the same old lines at every mealtime isn't it. Mummysurfer's idea sounds good and I might try this one too! Other than that, like others have suggested, try not to make too much of an issue of the eating as this is giving her the attention, easy to suggest I know but harder to carry out...I'm the worst offender!! Personally I think that provided she is eating small amounts of a healthy, balanced diet and drinking plenty, then I would relax and just continue reinforcing your rules about table manners etc which are the skills that if established at this age, will become second nature as she gets older.

Cll, could you get your ds one of those booster seats which have a belt that goes over their lap? I wouldn't let him start wandering around because this habit will be extremely hard to break. I think you're right that it isn't fair on your dd if ds is allowed to get away with this behaviour. Better to get control now and set the rules, even if it means him not eating as much until he gets the message. Does he do it everyday or in phases? My dd who eats very well most of the time, always gets fussy with her food when she's teething or has a cold. If you're worried about him getting enough to eat, maybe you could offer things that you know he definitely likes and repeat these meals whilst establishing the rules of sitting up to the table etc. Once you've got him into that routine, then start to vary his diet again and offer different food.
HTH

DS is 3.7months and I have had his problem since he was 13months old. It is the same as many of your children, he would rather do anything else than eat. Over the years it was a real battle every meal time to the point where I would be at my wits end. He would have one spoonful and insist on no more, but he woukld wake up saying he had tummy ache about 12a.m. which was an obvious lack of food. What used to really wind me up is when people would say to me "Oh he'll eat when he is hungry". My son would go all day without dinner or tea, he is brill at breakfast time though. I have learned not to get annoyed anymore and praise him when he is eating at least half of his dinner. He tends to get up alot and has one spoonful every five minutes, but if I enforce the rules he just breaks them but moving around even more and then we all get stressed, so I remind him to eat if his dinner has been sitting there for a while but it is alot calmer nowadays as he is slowly getting better.
Getting him to try anything new is a nightmare and he won't eat anything with green herbs in, so if I am doing a spag bog, I will cook his seperately to dh and mine and not add any herbs or onions or mushrooms because he will take one look at it and spend all dinner time picking it out, so he will get plain mince and the tomatoes. He had his 3.5 check up and doc said his weight is fine and he is growing well so I will just have to hope he improves with age and when he starts school. Great thing is he really shocked me the other day I gave him brown bread for the first time in about a year and he loves it and won't eat white bread now. But it is comforting to see that other people are going through the same problems with chidren of a similar age.

Thanks for the messages. So far today, v. small breakfast and much faffing. But moaning from 10.30 that she was hungry!! So had a reasonable lunch, fo her. I managed to ignore the singing etc!! So we'll see tonight, although 1 reasonable meal a day is fine with me at the moment!

She's definitely walking to school to get dd1 so hopefuly she'll have an appetite....??!

Please everyone, don't get into the habit of making your children clear the plate. I have two friends who suffer terrible overweight problems, and know that it comes from their parent's forcing them to eat up when they were kids. Now neither of them can bear to leave food on a plate, even after they are no longer hungry. One says she knows it's wrong, but feels guilty thowing food away, or sending anything back in a restaurant.

If my ds eats 2 mouthfuls of food, then gets down, then the plate is taken away and he gets no more until next food time. He used to come back to table and say he wants more, but soon learned that once he'd left it, it was gone. No row, no fuss, just done with. No snacks tho' until next food time (I did sometimes bring supper forward by an hour or something if I thought he was really starving).

He's stopped doing it, and I accept that some days he's much less hungry than others. so never force him to eat anything.

If I give him something new and he says he doesn't like it, I don't force him to eat it. But, he must wait until we've finished before I get him something else, and often during that waiting time he develops a taste for it !!!

Be aware that tired kids really can't be bothered with food, and if they don't eat much supper, try making a milky drink before bed. I still think milk is an excellant food replacement if I can't be bothered to eat.

batey, sympathies, we often have this. To be honest I wouldn't bother with star charts etc and would just do what you have been doing as you described in your first post.

I think your rules are good ones (the same as mine so they must be ).

I feel like this quite often...just basically worn out listening to myself spout the same old phrases. I think you just have to take a deep breath and soldier on. I bet if you continue to do what you are doing (and don't offer any snacks)you'll see an improvement.

Make sure that you take a bit of time for you too, try and have some nice relaxing evenings and maybe get dh to watch them at the weekend while you have a break.

I went up to London without the girls this weekend and found after a couple of days away all dd1s problems didnt seem so bad - they are still there but I have more strength to cope with them. Let us know how it goes. x E

Cheers Enid! A w/e away sounds like a great idea!

And Easy, I take your point and am not one to make them eat if they're full. I think it's very important for them to learn when they're full and I have no problems with them leaving food on their plates. However, with dd2, she'll say she's finished her chicken as she's full but 2mins later apparently has room for a chocolate yoghurt!!! In that circumstance, she does need to finish some more of her dinner!

Thanks again for all the replies.

I absolutely agree with Easy! Kids aren't on diets, they work by instinct, they eat when they are hungry and don't when they are not. There are times my dd will clear the plate, and other times when she will only eat a couple of spoonfuls. We just accept this, she will not starve. I give her milk to drink two or three times a day and fruit as snacks, so I'm quite confident she gets plenty of nutrients. If they won't eat a square meal, try giving them healthy snacks throughout the day, like toast soldiers, carrot sticks, etc. My dd also loves frozen peas and sweetcorn.

Please, please don't make an issue with food. They really won't starve. I saw a documentary once on a little boy who refused to eat anything but ice-cream. His mother took him to a psychologist in the end, but it turn out that it was her who needed the psychologist, not him. She was so obsessed with getting food down him, and he was picking up on this, on her anxiety and so on, and it was making him anxious thus worsening his food phobia. The advice given was to let him eat what he wanted and sooner or later he would come round. It worked and the little boy began asking about the food they were eating, and if he could try some.

It might feel like you are relinquishing control, but what you are really doing is setting your children a laid-back attitude towards food, which is the healthiest attitude they could have!

I agree with easy and rhubarb.
If her singing at the table is getting you down, why dont you start singing a song she does NOT like at the top of your voice for a few days whilst you are at the table.If your dd asks you to stop it etc tell her that you dont like it when she sings at the table and that you are going to carry on until she stops singing.

I tend to limit snacks and leave mealtimes a bit later so I can ensure that my three children are ravenous when they sit down to eat. It makes for happier mealtimes and quicker, too. Snacks are only fruit which is not too filling.

My ds doesn't have snacks, if he has a bannana or yoghurt inbetween meals, he gets his meals slightly later. I never ever force him to eat all his dinner, but I know my son is capable of eating more than one mouthful so every few minutes he is reminded to have another one. If he only eats a quater of his meal hence four mouthfuls that is fine by me as long as he eats more than one mouthful. Yesterday he ate two spoonfuls of a very tastey roast dinner, but ate all his stuffing. He was too tired to eat at lunchtimes when he returns from preschool, I only give him crackers and a yoghurt or banana or half a sandwich because he is just too tired to eat.

We must be bad parents as we rarely eat with our children but I'd never get any peace otherwise. dd is in a highchair and food throwing phase and ds (4) is quite good about meals but sometimes only has a few mouthfuls. I just clear everything away and offer something different about an hour later. Sometimes he just has a series of snacks throughout the day, these are healhty ones though, like a banana, grated carrot, cheese and toast and so on. I am just glad that he eats at all and don't get too stressed about sitting at the table as I am sure he will do that in his own time. We do set a good example and always sit down at our own meals and no food in trays in front of the telly, so hopefully he will get het message some day and want to copy us.

I had a similar conversation with my sister at the weekend. She believes that children should finish their plate (or most of it) and if they don't then they don't get any pudding. By contrast if my dd (aged 2yrs 4 mths) doesn't eat hers I don't really force the issue and might give her a yoghurt a bit later on. I suggested that you can't force someone of this age to eat their dinner but my sister argued that you can (although there may be tears in the process)... Should I be more determined?

No, please don't. I think happiness is so much more important than rules, and if you are happy, then why change. I hate forcing kids to eat. It's normal and natural to prefer a change of tastes, it's natures way of getting us to eat a variety of foods, not manipulative behaviour by toddlers. Do none of you know what it is like to eat enough of one thing, but still be able to eat something else that tastes different? This is an evolutionary impulse to stop us gorging on one food only to the detriment of our nutritional status. Yoghurt has different nutrients to, say, chicken and spinach, but equally vital ones, such as vitamins A & D, calcium, trace minerals (from the milk) and some fibre and nutrients from fruit (especially if you add your own fruit). Why deprive your child of nutrients because they won't eat other nutrients? It doesn't make sense to me. Also, I think reinforcing the idea that some food is 'punishment' and some food is 'treat', rather than it's all food, has the potential to set up a whole different set of problems. I think it's too easy to get caught up in control issues and pretend they are health issues.

I don't force my child to eat but if she doesnt finish her main course (within reason, she doesnt have to eat every single piece of pasta) then she doesnt get pudding. Do you really believe that her desire to eat a fromage frais instead of her brocolli is because of evolutionary programming? I don't. I think its because one is full of sugar and one isn't.

I was brought up this way and have no issues over food whatsoever - except that I love it!

Personally I think we pussyfoot around children's eating too much and this is what causes 'food issues'.

I know how much my dd will and can eat. Luckily we dont have much of a problem with food - I can tell if she is genuinely not hungry and I dont force her to eat then. But she doesnt get any snacks between meals - except apples, she's allowed free access to the fruit bowl. Quite often she raids the veg patch for carrots! If she is in a good eating phase I am more relaxed about snacks.

I do believe I am in control at mealtimes actually. Basically what I say goes! Most of my family were brought up this way with very strong matriarchal presence in the kitchen and I can't think of a single food allergy or issue in the whole lot of them.

Batey - it does get better, honest. You could be describing my 2 dds, who are now 6 & 8. The 6 yr old has always been a very picky eater, & is very skinny bet generally fit so I don't bother too much. What I have found is that she will eat v. little for 2 or 3 days, and then have a hungry day when she likes to eat a large meal (preferably roast dinner). I too got sick of the sound of my own voice at meal times, & felt like she was ruining every meal we sat down at together. I'm not sure what you can do to make it better. Your rules sound much the same as ours (ie if you do get down, dinner is finished) and if she got hungry between meals, the options were fruit or bread and butter. One point to bear in mind is that we all are quite big eaters (even her older sister) and sometimes I think she was just overfaced by what was on her plate. I started putting out much smaller meals for her, with the option of having seconds if she wanted it, and I think she appreciated the novelty of finishing the same time as everyone else. Also, she prefers meals where she can 'pick' at things from the table, and just take what she likes, so that may be an idea. Anyway, hope it soon gets better for you.

Thanks Berries, things have been a little easier lately as I have stopped any persauding tac-tics and calmly removed her plate if she gets down. we've had 2 or 3 major wobblers because of this which have been duly ignored, and then she's come back and finished a reasonable amount.

So things are improving! But it can be an uphill, soul destroying struggle when yet another dinner gets chucked in the bin. Anyway, here's to our upward curve at the moment!

My 3yo was weighed and measured yesterday: in the last year he has put on 1kg and grown 12cm. He eats less than my 9mo. The HV's reaction was 'he's efficient and is clearly getting everything he needs'.