7 week old baby does not sleep during the day

[PatronSaintOfDucks]

Hello everyone. This is my first thread. I am sure there were similar topics before, but I would like to exchange ideas with people who are in a similar situation to mine, and possibly help each other.

I have a 7 week old ds. He is utterly angelic when he sleeps well. The problem is that although he sleep reasonably well during the night, daytime napping is hell. As a newborn he started off with being able to drop off pretty much anywhere any time. By four weeks this ability was gone. Now I am only really able to get him to sleep either in a moving pram or in a sling, with me moving, and then often only for 30-40 min max. And he usually only falls asleep after at least some and often protracted screaming. I hate to hear him scream and feel like a child abuser.

I've been trying to watch for his "sleepy signs" and put him either in the pram or sling early. This sometimes works with the sling but never with the pram. It is also often hard to know when he is sleepy as he is a very slow eater (a feed can easily take 40 minutes), his "activity" window can be very narrow and he is prone to dozing on the breast.

He also will not sleep on me. He used to fall asleep on the breastfeeding cushion after a feed, but if he does it now, he sleeps for 2 minutes max.

He also does not seem to ever go into deep sleep during the day, but always REM. He always fidgets and I can see his eyes moving under eyelids.

I feel terrible as I have to enforce daytime sleep through his screams. But I feel like I do not have a choice as if he does not sleep, he starts hanging on my breast for literally hours, fidgeting and pulling, dozing but never properly asleep.

For the past four days I've been trying to do a little routine for the first nap. He gets up around 7, and I time his first nap at around 8:30 am when he shows signs of tiredness. I take him upstairs to bed (we co-sleep), sign him a song, feed him, swaddle him (he is swaddled in the night), and then stroke/shushpat/hum/feed him to sleep. I do not have a blackout blind, however, so it's light. Today we managed about 1.5 hour nap, but he fidgeted for the whole time and I had to pat him and hum to him for pretty much the whole time to keep him asleep.

Is there anything else I can do at all? I especially hate to make him cry. It breaks my heart. The HV is telling me to "just put him down when happy and walk away", but she does not tell me what to do when he starts crying.

7 weeks for me was a tricky stage with all three of mine. This is where I had to "put the work in". By 12 weeks babies are quite different.

My tips

1. swaddle until they stop jerking themselves awake - my third would always wake himself up until about 14 weeks. I did one arm swaddle around 8/9weeks
2. very dark room
3. pat and ssshhhhh bottom
4. try to resettle at 45 mins to get through sleep cycle
5. when a little older I used a bath in the morning to trip bub it was night time. Got a long morning nap and the day off to a good start
6. watch for cues
7. feed, change, activity time (very very short) sleep

Try and hang in there for another few weeks. If by 12 weeks it's all not working then give up the ghost but if you can keep going you will get the benefits. Bubs do change so much in the early days. xxx

Many congratulations

p.s it one nap time isn't going to so well. Go for a walk and try again at the next nap time.

Evening everyone. Day three in the trenches:

Night was not too bad.

• Ds resettled in about 15 min after 11 pm feed, no hairdryer necessary.
• Woke up at 2:20 for a feed, fed for 30 min, resettled in about 15 min again, don't remember if used hairdryer (got to keep a notepad in bed, along with all other ammo)
• Woke up at 5:30 for a feed - not the usual 4:30! Here I have to confess I could not bear losing sleep again, so fed him lying down and essentially fed to sleep.
• Up at 6:45 for good.

Day:

• First nap at 8:30 (daddy did not obey instructions to bring ds up at 8:15). Pretty bad nap overall. Settled in 15 min, napped well for the first 45 min, but then really struggled to get over 45 min barrier. Spent the next 45 min constantly fidgeting and requiring humming.
• All other naps were in the sling. For all he settled really easily, besides for the last nap, but he was cranky to start with. He was also less fidgety. I think he is coming to like the sling (Bugaboo is getting covered with cobwebs)
• 11:40 - 13:00 - in the house while I did housework.
• 15:10 - 16:00 - out for a walk, but he was awake looking around for first 20 min.
• 17:30 - 18:30 - in the house.

Overall, not too bad. No boob besides the 5:30 feed, and not nearly as much whingeing and crying as yesterday. Using all the same tools still. The times for the first two naps of the day are pretty much clearly identified. The key challenges now are: 1) helping him stay asleep while napping, and 2) figuring out what his napping preferences are for the afternoon. Afternoons are very messy. But maybe this is just it for now and I need to be watching him.

Flippinpeedoff - wow, 6 children! Congratulations on such an achievement! You are absolutely right, they are all different characters. I am reconciled with my little bunny being a non-napper. I would leave him to his own devices if only he did not get so grumpy from lack of sleep. I really never imagined I would turn into this analysing and structuring mother. I thought I would be a real hippy, just carting ds with me and letting him do whatever he wants. Unfortunately, he is miserable when left to do what he wants.

PoppetUK, thanks for all the tips, esp. the last one! I do also hope that he will nap better at 12 weeks. I read that after three months, the proportion of deep sleep starts to increase in babies' total sleep, so this might mean that ds will stay asleep for longer.

Let's see what the night brings. xxx

oh actually I think that is pretty good! don't call him a non-napper, he IS napping and he will get so much better at it, honest.
Hope you have a good night.

patronsaint...yes dc 6 was also a very miserable baby. I mean really miserable, constantly screaming, constantly upset. It was very wearing and he wouldn't sleep and there was nothing i could do to change that. He was a miserable non napper and I think I knew instinctively that there was no way I could make him anything else. Now he's three he's much better.

Ghah!!

I am thinking that the whole "training baby to sleep" thing may be a bit of wishful thinking for babies who just do not like going to sleep. Or at least for young babies. Our morning nap was rubbish today, and this after like a million times we did it. Ds goes to sleep not too badly, but keeping him asleep is very difficult. All daytime naps were in the sling. It took a whopping two hours to put poor ds down for the night and he really cried. This was definitely the most difficult night put-down ever. He also cannot manage his 8 pm - 11pm sleep without masses of white noise. And finally, it's hard to keep him asleep after his 4:30 am feed. He was up at 5:30 am today.

On the good side, the sling naps are getting better. He is coming to like the sling more, settles in it easier, spends more time asleep and also even sometimes allows me to sit down.

I also think that perhaps the problems in the morning and also tonight are due to the light in the room. I got a black-out blind today. Hopefully will manage to install it tomorrow, although am rubbish at DIY.

Ds is also increasingly windy. Tonight's two-hour escapade may have been due to wind. Dh got a lot of wind out of him when he went to settle ds when I had enough. But perhaps the wind was swallowed during the yelling beforehand. I am giving ds chamomile tea to help burping.

Oh well, it shall pass. And I will miss it. I know.

One more thing, and this is rather creepy: The sleep routine I've developed for ds after watching when he gets tired is identical to that in the Baby Whisperer (but with more feeds, and not all sleeps in the bedroom). And I don't even like that book.

Am becoming convinced that sleep training just does not work for some at least young babies. Our morning nap is going from bad to worse. Took 20 min to settle today, and nap only lasted 40 min max. And that was with constant fidgeting, eye opening, etc., which required constant humming, tons of white noise and cuddling. Put him down for his second nap early as he was shattered, even sort of darkened the room as much as i could with the blind, but same thing happened, only even worse. And now he is having a really sleepy ineffective feed as he is tired. I cannot physically carry him in a sling for every single nap. I also do not think he does not sleep because of pain as he does not mind being put down at all when fed and rested. Any ideas?

stop trying to make him sleep

flippinpeedoff, I wish I could. I tried that. If ds does not sleep, he turns into Beelzebub. He gets massively grumpy and the only thing that will stop him from screaming is boob. However, he does not eat, he just chews on it. For hours and hours on end. I end up being nailed to the couch with boobs chewed to shreds. This actually how I realised he was tired and not hungry. After two weeks on the couch with chewed boobs I started to ask myself - what in blooming hell is going on? If, however, he sleeps, he is the angel Gabriel. He is happy, constantly smiling, playing with his toys, gurgling to me, and my boobs feel great. So hence I cling to the hope that there is some way to save my nipples from falling off and my arse from becoming totally flat.

I am now trying to decide whether to go cold turkey on the white noise (feel sorry for ds as he will really mind) or record my hairdryer on the ipod so I can play with the volume and not risk burning the house down.

Update:

The night was shit. DS woke up for a feed at 2:30 am and stayed awake until almost 5. Then woke up for another feed at 5:30, and then up at 6:30. Gah. Naps were reasonable though. Two first naps, each about an hour, in bed in dark room (got the blind up) with some radio white noise (did not even need the hairdryer for one nap!), then another hour in sling. Then he had his first jabs. Went down at 8 not too badly, but then woke up 30 min later. He usually does not go this, it was probably his jabs. DH went to settle him and managed it. He can do it now as boob is no longer required for DS to go to sleep!

Another bad night and day. Ds had his injections on Tuesday. Tuesday-to-Wednesday night was actually suprisingly good, easy settling, lots of sleep. He even self-settled a couple of times. Once during the day and once after the 3 am feed. Wednesday during the day was also good. On Wednesday-to-Thursday night, however, he stayed up for 2.5 hours after his 11 pm feed. He was wide awake for most of them, eyes wide open. By the end he started crying and I had no choice but to feed him to sleep. No other method worked. Today, for the first time in over two weeks I was not able to put him down for his morning nap. I did everything as usual - took him up 1 hr and 15 min after he woke up, at first yawn, when he was still happy, swaddled, hummed to him, put hairdryer on, etc. But the situation was the same as in the night - eyes wide open. Yawning all the time, but no sign of sleep.

I am a bit scared. I really do not want to go down feed-to-sleep route again as I worked so hard to get rid of it, and it let to prolonged ineffective feeds when he was actually awake. I will see what happens.

Minda, thanks! I know that it's not about training, books or any other thing. It's just what my child is. The trouble is that I've got to learn to live with it, and my rationally-oriented brain is digging its horns in and refusing to accept that "THERE IS BLOODY NOTHING I CAN DO!" I just have to go with the slog of wrestling him to sleep 7-8 times in each 24-hour period and not have too many expectations.

Today we managed two one-hour naps. Both in the sling (I am definitely getting loads of exercise). He went down for the night not too badly at 7:30. Did a bit of yelling, but quickly zonked. No hairdryer, just radio. Probably just was really knackered from the day, despite the last nap being 5-6 pm. Am dreading the 11 pm feed and subsequent settling, however. Ommmmm.

I haven't read the whole thread- off to bed, rather tired so sorry if this has been mentioned. I wholeheartedly recommend the no cry nap solution by Elizabeth Pantley. Worked/ing for me.

Patron Saint: someone very wise on another thread recommended finding an old analogue radio (ie not digital) and tuning it to between stations to get white noise. We did this and it has worked a treat for us. We get half an hour in the evening to have our dinner in peace, and we use it to get him to nap in the day, which seems to work 50% of the time. He doesn't always sleep with it on, but he is ALWAYS really calm when we put it behind his head in his cot. Much cheaper (and safer!) than the hairdryer or running an empty washing machine or leaving the vacuum cleaner on.. Good luck. I am struggling too, to get my 9 week old to nap in the day, without resorting to a drive or a walk....

My daughter is now in her teens and was a very good baby so I may not be qualified to advise but your situation sounds so desperate that I thought I would throw in my two cents' worth. Have you considered the possiblity that your baby may be hungry? You seem to be BFing frequently but you also mention that during many of these "feeds", he is not, in fact, feeding properly and this makes me wonder whether you are trapped in some kind of not enough sleep - not enough food - not enough sleep cycle?
Have you considered adding some formula feeding to BFing? My DD was fed on a mix of breast and formula for the first three months, then only formula and she is one of the healthiest children I know.

Whatever you do, good luck and I hope that things get better soon! x

Hi Elza! I've got the NCSS book on sleep in general, but seriously doubt that I could summon enough courage to implement the plan it recommends. It looks so complicated, esp. at 4 am. I am a wuss, and perhaps not desperate enough yet.

Summersoon, I would blame it on hunger if DS was not gaining weight as a good rate and producing copious nappies. HV and lactation consultants all say that we are fine. I think the prolonged feeds at least partially are due to comfort feeding and comfort feeding comes from lack of sleep. Poor DS is tired, but does not know how to comfort himself other than on the breast. As I've been working on the naps in the past two weeks and making him sleep more, the feeding has actually improved. Still not fast, but better. He started gulping rather actively and even got wind now (definitely can't feed him to sleep any more because of wind). And we had a case of projectile vomiting.

Clippedwings - a fellow struggler! My DS is also now 9 weeks old. It's been a couple of weeks since the start of the thread. I am currently using the radio and trying to wean DS off the hairdryer and onto the radio. It's sort of working. I also use the radio for daytime naps.

Our things have got better in the past day. Things change all the time. The morning nap is still a bit crap, only 40-45 min, but with radio noise DS is well asleep and I am able to do some housework. The other two naps are generally taken in the sling. This works for me not too badly now. Although these naps are only an hour long each. But I'll keep working on them, and perhaps they will get longer. Today we had some small progress - DS slept in the sling when I was stationary in the house! Even though I had to put him to sleep while walking outside initially. He is also spending more time in the sling just alert, so today we were looking at duck on the canal. Really cute.

Another shit night. He's been up from 11 to 1 and from 3:30 until now. I've had 2.5 hours of sleep. HOW, HOW do you put a child to sleep without letting him use me as a dummy? Nothing works.

thank god he slept till 8:30!

I've got a yo-yo baby. This night is much better. All "settlings" less than 5 minutes. morning nap was rubbish though.

I'm sorry you're having an awful time with this. Does sound like you are aiming for rather a lot of naps though. I'd have thought you could try to keep him up a little bit longer between naps - aiming for 3 per day. First one 45 mins, second one 1 hr 30 (i.e. two sleep cycles, with resettling after the first one if necessary) then another one of 45 mins.

Hi Schmee, perhaps you are right and four naps is a bit ambitious. In reality I've been managing a max of three every day. The morning one is short - 45 min. Can't get him past the barrier, although he has done it before. The other are in the sling, but can't get him to nap for longer than 1 hr in the sling. Not sure why. Perhaps should try for mid-day nap in the cot, but I am usually out at this time. DS is also sleeping in his cot for the first time today (we were co-sleeping, the cot is now next to the bed with one side down), I hope this will not unsettle him. Thanks!

Ducks he sounds just like my DS at that age. He'd feed for 45 minutes at a time, get tired at 1hr 15 and scream the place down if I didn't manage to get him to sleep. He hated the pram for ages too. He had 4 naps a day at that age through necessity - he could only cope with 1hr 15 of awake time but usually only napped for 45 minutes. I also used the Baby Whisperer routine (though I found her book deeply irritating).

He's 6 months now and still an awful sleeper but his naps are better, he goes off v easily in the pram and the margin of error in his awake time is greater (he can stay awake happily for 2-2.5 hrs now). Those early weeks (and months) are tough - I feel for you. Just take each day as it comes - I found DS changed so much from week to week and what worked one day wouldn't work the next.

By the way, we still use white noise and swaddling for all sleeps at six months!