Surely bedtime shouldn't be this difficult?

[Trinaluce]

2.6 DD takes FOREVER to go to bed in the evenings. We have the routine: pyjamas, into bed for a story, bottle, then one of us sits in the room (otherwise she will not stay in bed) not talking or making any form of contact with her until she dozes off. This is where the problem sets in. If DH is putting her to bed, he'll be back downstairs usually within 40 minutes (which I personally think is stupidly long anyway). If I'M putting her to bed, I will still be in there an hour and a half later. I'll get up to go knowing she's asleep - but as soon as I set foot outside her door I get the plaintive cry of 'mummy' and she's out of bed and then will not go back. I'll try for another half an hour before giving up and getting DH to take over before I do something I'll regret. I don't bother to put her to bed at all now, it's become DH's job - but he's out on Wednesday nights and I have to do it. The last three times he's got home at 10pm to find me sitting on the sofa in tears because she's still awake and I've had NO time to myself. I don't tend to put her down for her daytime naps these days as I work afternoons and she doesn't need to sleep until it's time to go, at which point she'll sleep in the car.

Today however I'm off work. I'm poorly. I'm exhausted (19weeks pg as well - and getting to the point where I'm wondering what the hell possessed me to want another one of these). SHE'S dead-on-her-feet tired. But I have spent three HOURS today trying to coerce her into staying in bed and sleeping. I've even let her fall asleep on me - and she's been unconscious. As soon as I stand up to take her upstairs, she's awake and throwing a tantrum. I've even tried taking her upstairs to my bed so I can at least doze - but no, all she does it poke me in the eye trying to prise my eyelids open.

Absolutely at the end of my tether, sitting here in tears. ANY suggestions other than strangle the little rat (which is the direction my brain is rapidly heading in)

wonders why MN has no emoticon for weeping or sobbing or bleary-eyed exhaustion

I feel for you - i know how hard this can be.

have you tried to leave and return option?

This is where you do your routine as normal and kiss and cuddle night - then tell her you will be back in 1 minute - leave the room and go outside. If she gets up take her back to bed and tell her again you will be back in a minute.Keep doing this until you manage a minute outside her room - go back in and check on her then go out for another minute etc.
Slowly extend this to 2 minutes then 3 etc.
It may take a long time - think my longest was about 2 hours but eventually it does work - it did for me

Hope that is some help to you

I've tried it - I kept going for (I think) half an hour never coming close to a minute. As soon as I turn to leave, she's out of bed and it didn't matter how many times I returned her to bed. Eventually she just bursts into tears and starts throwing a tantrum: at which point you just KNOW she's never going to go to sleep

I am so sorry you are struggling with this, it's horrible to know that something you have to do everyday is going to be hard because it affects everything all day its not like you can just decide not to do it!!

If it was me (which it isn't and I am no expert this is only my experience) I would give the bottle before pj's and do it down stairs having a cuddle and reading a book or listening to some music in a very relaxed environment. Then up stairs pj's teeth into bed. all the time talking through the plan for bedtime and telling her what you are going to be doing when shes asleep. 'you are going to bed now all warm and cosy to get some energy for our adventures tomorrow, we are going to do ???? and you'll need lots of energy to have fun doing it, while you're asleep I'll be just downstairs doing some jobs so I don't have to do them instead of ??? tomorrow' Read a bedtime story and say good night I love you I'll be right downstairs looking after you all the time you're asleep. Then you have to chose your path and stick with it either sit in the doorway until shes asleep but no communication or walk down stairs and leave her to it if she comes down take her back but give her no communication. Which you chose is up to you but it needs to be consistent.

I would also suggest that eventhough it is hard you decide to put her to bed every night following your plan until she is settling herself that way you will build your confidence in doing it and things will remain consistent.

It took me about 10 days to get DD settling herself and now we don't have an issue at all anywhere :)

The problem with 'take her back upstairs no commnunication' is that I'm not physically fit enough to do it as many times as she needs! I think my record for one night was 30 times up and downstairs before giving up just letting her come down. Trouble is I suffer from a bad back (even pre-pregnancy) and cannot lift her that many times without having to take days off work afterwards

Sometimes when you are anticipating a problem - thats exactly what you will get. My daughter had to return her daughter to bed every half hour for many many hours over about 6 nights -Everyone was exhausted,.. but it worked.

Doing it for a few hours and giving in or for a couple of nights and giving in, just means that it will go on for longer.

Your daughter is used to you sitting in the room so I wonder why you ever started to do that ?
Perhaps you used to do it for your own peace of mind originally ? Its best to be quite matter of fact about it and kiss her goodnight - and leave immediately. I wouldn't do the keep going back in - just keep returning her until she stays put.

I know you say she will tantrum and then you know she will never sleep - sorry if this is obvious - but have you tried pushing on through this and just keep going with the bedtime routine, lots of reassurance if you want, but the tantrum is probably a sign that she is tired, even if she seems more hyped up at that point. I know if DS misses bedtime he gets overtired and it feels like he will never sleep, but then suddenly he will just drop off. It's weird.

For a short time is there something you could do in the room while waiting for her, read? Do you have a laptop or phone you could MN on? Or try going to sleep with her for a while. It is hard sacrificing your evening but it might only be for a short time.

Other than that I can't offer anything as I must admit I let DS come downstairs when he won't sleep too. I'm a single parent and I just can't cope with it after a while. I find when he hasn't napped in the day he's easier to get to sleep though. Also a before-bed snack often helps.

Davsmum DH started it, I think to make her stay in bed. I've no idea.

It sounds like what we do with DS might work for you (though we never had as much trouble with him re tantrums etc - but still, think it would be worth trying).

You would need a stairgate at the top of the stairs, and a bolt or hook on the outside of any other upstairs rooms you especially want to keep her out of or which might be too exciting.

With DS, we do his bedtime routine, finishing with a story of his day, for which he has to be in bed (or he doesn't get it). Then lights out in his room, but he usually asks for the landing light to be left on and his door open so he can see a bit (no problem). Make sure lights are off in any other upstairs rooms though, at least until she's asleep. He also has most of his toys downstairs, and only books and a few jigsaws in his room.

I then say night night and head downstairs, closing the stairgate. However he IS allowed to get out of bed, and do whatever he wants (within reason, not too noisy etc) in his room. If we notice he has come out to the landing or gone into other rooms (i.e. if he is being a pain there or might wake baby!), we come up, say "bed" and steer him back to his room but without big fuss. If he is quiet though, we don't come and check he's in his room but just leave him to it.

Usually, he will get out of bed when we go (unless he's especially tired), look at his books/jigsaws for a little bit in the light from the doorway, and then HE will decide he's tired, get into bed and go to sleep. If he is playing for a really long time and won't go to bed, we might eventually switch off the landing light (can do it from downstairs, so no need to argue about it with him) and then he usually gets in bed.

If he shouts because something is wrong, e.g. needing a wee, we come up, deal with it as boringly/quickly as possible and then disappear again. But if he makes a fuss when there is nothing really wrong, he just gets another "night night, sweetie" and I head straight back downstairs, so there's not much incentive to keep doing it.

Think it helps that he feels he has control over when to get into bed, and also that we make everything else as boring as possible from bedtime onward so he is effectively "bored into bed"! And we've never yet come up and found him asleep on the floor with his books or anything

I so feel for you, i had the same problems with my DD she is 7 now but has always had certain sleep issues at certain times. I used to have to sit at the side of her bed, hold her hand and put my head down as if I was falling asleep, no talking or anything, it eventually worked and then I tried just pottering around in another room upstairs so she could hear me but no talking just calming reassurrance I was there. Sleep problems are so hard she went through I phase only last year where I needed to consult the doctor as she had three hour tantrums every night...i was scared I was going to hurt her...i screamed at her, and lost it with her a few times. Eventually all of a sudden we tried just being really really calm and warning her of bedtime about an hour before. It took a long time as she used to rub her hands with anxiety and then make me promise to check on her in ten minutes. I really do sympathise. You will get there in the end its just a lot of perserverance she will understand eventually that you mean what you say and bedtime is a nice thing.

So no-one's tried stapling the child to the bed? PLEASE tell me someone's been tempted!

She's still awake by the way. DH has been less then helpful (not sure what I thought he could do from work tbh) - but I know when he gets home, he'll put her to bed and she'll be so knackered from refusing to sleep all day that she'll go straight to sleep. All that achieves is me hating the pair of them

i feel for you, and could have written your first post a few nights ago! i have resorted to major bribery for ds1, also 2.6.

managed about 90 minutes of calmly through gritted teeth putting back to bed every 2 minutes for a few nights, which always ended with me in tears sitting in his room while he finally dropped off, which i decided was a pointless exercise.

he does drop off quicker than your dd if i just sit there from the word go (as long as ive not let him nap in the day) but i don't want to get into the habit of it - just in case that turns into a bad habit....

so i've created a different habit of bribing him to stay in bed

he doesn't seem to understand reward charts yet really - it doesn't work even if he does understand it. so i picked something i knew he would like - a bag of choc buttons, and i put it on his bedside table as we get into bed (after usual routine). if he stays in bed, he gets the buttons in the morning. i actually give him about 2 chances at the moment, each one getting more firm - and so far it's working.

i'll work on reducing the bribe, and hopefully stretching eventually to 3 nights staying in bed = treat etc. i don't really like having to use such a big bribe, but for me, i needed my evenings back and quickly. ds2 wakes at 10pm for a feeding fest that lasts all night and my bedtime at 7pm was precious, just as yours is. i decided i didn't have the energy to go through 2 weeks of 2 hours a night putting him back to bed.

might be worth a try if you're not totally anti bribing!

This may help, it may not. My DD started off like that, and eventually we just walked off and left her crying and put the stair gate across her door, but it was upsetting her and us. Someone suggested that we put really girly fairy lights in her room that we would switch on when we had read the bed time story and said our goodnights. We also made sure that she had her favourite teddies etc. She loved the lights so much she couldn't wait for us to go. Unfortunately they broke and weren't replaced and 18 months down the line the issue of bedtime is resurfacing but I'm not against trying it again!