Is MMR connected to allergies in children? Your opinions.

[Jenie]

Right I'll start with my story so far, I'm taking dd to the drs on Wednesday for a referal to the hospital to get her checked over for any allergies she has.

I know that she's allergic to eggs and we live / deal with that as and when it becomes a problem. On Thursday of last week she ate a peanut (just the one and spat half of it out as she said she didn't like it) well her face started swell with dramatic speed.

I gave her some anti-hystamine (she's been prescribed double the dose it recommends on the pack) this worked and every 3 - 4 hrs she had another dose to keep the swelling down this lasted for 48hrs until the swelling in her face subsided.

I will add that this peanut was her first ever peanut!

As for her egg allergy she didn't have this until after her MMR so I think they may be connected but would like to hear if anyone else has a similar story.

Sorry to waffle on for so long but I'd like to be armed with other peoples views befor ranting at my dr about not sending her for a full allergy test in the first place.

I think vaccinations in general can make someone with an atopic type immune system more prone to allergies. Look up vaccination and th2 type immune system on the web (google's good) and you'll get loads. GP's don;t know anything about this though.....

What do GPs know jimjams? Mine doesnt know what Makaton is and insists my dd doesnt need to use it because she isnt deaf - oh purlease.

Sorry Jenie I dont know much about vaccines and allergies but I am glad you will have clearer picture aboiut your dd's allergies soon. Good Luck

Ds has atopic eczma are they connected? Or am I just being silly?

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Possibly jennie. Allergies and atopic eczema are linked. Have a look at the stuff on th2 type immune systems (means you're prone to allergies/autoimmune conditions) and vaccinations. However- the research is very much in its infancy. When I get a chance I'll have a quick browse and see if I can find something useful Probably won't be until later tomorrow though. (sorry- I have a big fight coming up with the SALT tomorrow and I need to get a video prepared whilst ds1 is at nursery and then its book club tonight).

Ha ha ha fio2. You made me laugh. To be fair I suppose they're not specialists (although I wish they wouldn't pretend to know lots about something when its obvious the parent knows more- and as for the Makaton comment- oh dear!).

Thank you all, I shall go and demand an epipen (refuse to leave the surgery without a prescription). From what I've just read it would seem that I should have expected dd to have more food intolerance problems - dr didn't warn me, just told me to give her medicine when she had a reaction!!

Decided that ds isn't going to be given MMR now, but would like some more info. JimJams I think it was you who asked me about ds's head banging and said that if I wanted any more info on autism to get in touch. It's been at the back of my mind since, he does seem to have food intolerance and as for colic at 17 months he still gets it from time to time now!

Anyway I shan't carry on ramberling on about this all now. I've got to get myself ready to face my incompetent dr and pack enough food for a non-violent protest....could be there for a while waiting for an epipen! Oh well I haven't got anything else planned for today.

Thank you again and I'll let you know how it goes.

Jenie- just realised that an article I posted under health earlier today here has a bit about MMR and the development of allergy and astham. It's in the middle of the article "....MMR Vaccine induces IgE class Switching...." This is all linked to Th2 type immune systems.

How very strange just read it!

hang on a minute - all GPs are not the same! Things to look for that might signal a good one are:

DCH or DCCH - diplomas in child health or community child health
DRCOG - diploma in obstetrics and gynaecology, people don't ususally bother doing these unless they're interested
MRCGP - member of royal college of GPs, or FRCGP -fellow of. Not a requirement for GPs (yet) but the exam looks at all sorts of good things like critical reading and communication skills.
A practice which has quality markers eg charter mark or in Scotland QPA (Quality Practice Award), or one which is a training practice, where GP Registars spend a year before qualifying as a GP

And of course the obvious, whether or not you get on - there's nothing to stop you seeing someone else in the practice, or changing practices, if you don't see eye to eye. A good GP will be prepared to research an area they aren't familiar with, and will listen to the well-read parent, even if they don't necessarily agree with everything.

Don't tar them all with the same brush!

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roboinw

the bit I was really interested in was where it said "it is possible that a side effect of viral vaccination consitutes an increase in the incidence of IgE mediated disorders"

I've assumed in our family a predisposition to IgE mediated disorders- which is why I haven't vaccinated ds2 at all. Interesting about the "viral" bit though- I need to read some more.

I thought the last quote from the Warren and Singh paper was making the point that if wild type mealses can do that then maybe vaccine type virus could as well. I would be interested to read more of their work.

I felt the article was very balanced, and really demonstrated the compexities of the issue. It's nowhere near as balck and white as its often portrayed to be.

jmb, I agree. We have three fantastic GPs in the surgery we're registered with and only one that I would never go to see again.

jmb and SueW I know there are some good GPs I was only joking its just this particular one at our surgery is rubbish, the rest of them there are fine

oh I know you were joking fio2- I laughed out loud. I'm not sure about the GP system really. A dodgy one can stop you taking things further and I think a lot of patients are beginning to know more these days (partly thanks to the internet). I know that I know a lot more about autism, vaccination and child development than my GP. I like him though.

I know what you mean jimjams this particular GP would not sign the physio referal form for my dd when she wasn't walking at 18months. She insisted it was because I carried her around too much! The HV had to refer us to the paed at the CDC, which had a 2 month waiting list, so we could in turn get a physio referal. By the time my dd actually received physio she was well on her way to walking anyway because we had read up on exercises to with her anyway through sheer frustration.

Jenie -- You're really going to deny your child the vaccinations that she needs? That sounds extremely dangerous to me.

Uh oh don't go there MumofLea. If you want to read the "discussions" on this topic I'd have a look under health- plenty there.

BTW if anyone wants a really good and balanced book to read about vaccinations I'd highly recommend The Vaccine Guide- Risks and Benefits for Children and Adults by Randall Neustaedter. He has some endorsements from various peadiatricians on the back as well. I've just finished reading it. Probably the best book I've read on this tricky subject (and given me lots more tetanus info hmb- I know when to give it if we do decide go ahead with tetanus for ds2 now)

Right then where to start? I'm not too sure to be honest.... Ok the appointment with dr. Once again seen by locum dr who didn't want to give me an epi pen. Spent 1/2 an hour debating the issue in a calm and reasonable manner and then resorted to threatening to sue her for medical negligence if anything happened to dd as a result of this (thank you robinw).

Dd is now on a waiting list to see a specialist, not just any specialist I've arranged for her to see a peanut allergy specialist, I've done this on the NHS. From what I can gather this was only done for me because I phoned the hospital that specialises in allergies and found out the specialists name!! If I hadn't done this then I wouldn't have got an appointment with him I'd have been sent to local hospital.

Dr didn't know how long the wait would be or which dr dd would need to see at local hospital anyway - useless.

The wait it turns out is 13 weeks, regardless of weather or not we go private and needless to say the care given will be the same for allergie testing. So we've saved about £185 and extras for tests!

But the bit that made me realy cross was after being told that an urgent fax would be sent to the hospital, I then find out today that said fax still hasn't been sent and won't be sent now until Friday maybe Monday - whats so urgent about that?

i am still waiting for allergy testing for my dd1. she doesnt have severe reactions atm, but the reactions are happening a lot more frequently. over the summer we think she must have been bitten or stung by an insect as the area around her eye swelled up really quickly. the pressure from this swelling was cauding her eyeball to 'bubble' (not very nice to see at all), all the doctors told us was to give her piriton. i have finally been referred to the hospital, havent yet recieved an appointment, just have to sit tightly with the piriton with my dd at all times. so far her breathing hasnt been involved (she is asthmatic) except when she is around cats, but that is easy to control with an inhalor. however at the age of 3.5 she has never knwingly had a peanut, or tried peanut butter or anything like that. i'm just too scared to try.

Mumofleo - I'm going to guess you only have 1 child, regardless I know that prior to having the MMR my dd was not allergic to eggs, I now know that she is now allergic to eggs and was shortly after having the MMR.

The rash on the trunk of her body after having MMR (standard rash that the nurse / dr warns you to expect) is the same rash that started to show an egg allergy, unfortunatly for dd and family in general the allergy has become more serious with hives and facial swelling that has to be controlled with antihystamies. It's scary to watch your babies face double in size in the space of 20 minutes and know that it could get worse......

An MMR now could kill dd and due to the staff shortage at local hospital they can't offer a resuss team and so she won't be offered it anyway.

Ds is the one who won't be having any MMR due to other problems and the experience with dd. I'm inclined to agree with all of the research and say that these children may have had a mild form of autism but this has been antagonised by having the MMR to the point that although the MMR didn't cause autism it hasn't helped it either.

I trust Jimjams will correct me if I've misinterperated the information.

misdee hang on in there, I'm just a horrible person who bugs and badgers drs into getting what I want done. This doesn't always work but things do move more quickly.

Phone your dr find out who dd has been refered to and at which hospital, phone that hospital and explain what's going on, that you're anxious and for your own sanity that you could do with a rough guide as to how long your appointment may be. If it seems like a long time just ask if they would consider you if another patient dropped out and leave your number.

Good luck, you don't get anything if you don't ask!

Can I correct Jenie?? I think the MMR damaged children were probably totally normal before hand (they seem to be anyway judging by video evidence- pointing and whatnot). Most estimates put MMR damage down to about 10% of autism cases (so not very many). Thimeorsil is another issue.

well done btw jenie- in getting the appointment! 13 weeks though! Ridiculous!

The appointment is in Cambridge and I live in Buckinghamshire! But as it's for the best place to be tested (near me) then it'll be worth it. Will talk more on Friday when dd is at school, thank you all for your support!

Cambridge seems to be really good for health services.....