why can't toddler (2) learn basic rules?

[drivingmisscrazy]

my DD is lovely, charming, sweet - and mostly pretty well behaved. She talks well - I believe - for her age (she was 2 a couple of weeks ago), but she cannot seem to establish a relationship between cause and effect. So, no matter how many times she is told, she turns her plate over at the end of a meal, or pours water on the floor when she has a drink, she doesn't learn to stop the behaviour. It's not that she doesn't understand that we don't want her to do these things (so if you warn her that you are going to take the drink off her, she 'drinks' it) just that she cannot (will not?). She will tell us to 'go away' if she wants to do something that we won't allow her to (turning muesli onto the table, spooning it back into the bowl - messily). We are consistent I think: if she bangs a toy on something she is warned, and then the toy is taken away. Naughty corner doesn't work as she just turns it into a game - comes out, repeats the behaviour and runs back laughing, shouting 'naughty corner'!!

I endlessly read stuff on here about how if you are firm and consistent your toddler will 'get it' eventually but have little to suggest this is the case with my own one! Or perhaps 'eventually' is further away than I realised?

Is it just that whatever bit of her brain that's needed hasn't developed yet? or that she is stubborn (I think she is)? Or are we insufficiently disciplinarian?

Curious for your thoughts/experiences

to be fair, DS is only just responding to actual punishment - I've realised that 2 is just too young and they don't get the consequences. DS is starting to get it and sits on the steps if he's naughty (he doesn't get told that he's naughty, and it's not hte naughty step - just gets removed to somewhere not fun for 2 mins if he's ignoring/throwing/being insolent

thanks for clarification about EYFS - I don't live in England any more and am very conflicted about the non-existent provision for pre-school standards etc here. On the one hand it's good not to be bound up in targets and the like at this age, on the other, I do wonder if she needs a bit more stimulus (she goes to nursery 3 mornings a week).

I really don't see why a 2yo should need more stimulus than 3 mornings a week at nursery- unless you are an abnormally boring family

What I think you have to take on board is that bringing up toddlers is a waiting game, particularly if you happen to have a spirited exemplar. Yes, eventually all your wonderful parenting is going to pay off in terms of stopping undesirable behaviour- but it's not necessarily going to happen at once.

I was a very non-compliant toddler. I am a perfectly civilised law-abiding adult. They years in between may have turned my mother;s hair grey, but she got there in the end. Dd was an almost totally non-compliant toddler. But is quite a reasonable teen.

Ime 2yos are anarchic boisterous defiant little creatures- and you just have to watch them like a hawk. It can only get better.

I think at two, they don't really have any concept of their actions having consequences. ds4 repeatedly does things he shouldn't and always looks perplexed when I put him on the naughty step when I would think it shouldn't be a surprise to him by now!

three mornings a week in nursery is plenty. I don't think they actually need a structured learning environment at that age. But it does get you a couple of hours to yourself!

well she loves nursery now (took her a while); I think she's fine - and not particularly or abnormally naughty. I was more curious about why, developmentally - often people post here looking for solutions - and whilst they are welcome, I think a more positive approach (am trying, is working better) and time are all that is required. I was more interested in explanations, which you've supplied beautifully.

She doesn't much like too much structure - beyond the security of an approximate routine - her cousin is much keener on structure and order.

I think that is lovely though. She is only two, best to be free and easy as long as you can. There's plenty of structure coming down the line!

My DD is 20 months and at the moment only really seems to "get" cause and effect if the effect is something that gives her a fright.

So she was climbing in the bath, slipped, went under - now she never climbs in the path. She threw a metal cup on the floor and it was loud and scary, and she doesn't do that any more.

She does know that if she persistently messes about with her food I will warn her and eventually take it off her. She then wants it back so after a few seconds I give it back to her and she is able to hold off the messing about for a while. But in a few minutes she has forgotten and is back to slinging her yoghurt around again!

Still it may be a good idea to exhaust some of that pent up energy - go for a walk, bike ride, swim, zoo also gives you something fun to talk about other than everyone getting frustrated with everyone's behaviour.

I think if this was me and my dd I would def show I was cross by tone of voice and expression and I would pick her up and put her somewhere else and ignore her for a few minutes. I think after a few minutes get down to her level explain why you are feeling cross,

'I asked you to keep your drink in your cup dd and you spilt on the floor which has caused mummy more work'

I would then ask her to say sorry.

Also reward charts at this age will begin to work and lots of encouragement to be good!!!

If all else fails I would remove a favourite toy for short period of time, although to be fair I only ever did this with my dd once when all else had failed and amazingly not had to use that threat again!!!

Girliefriend fair enough, but my point is that she doesn't respond really to the fact that I am cross; and ignoring her is of limited use as she's perfectly happy to amuse herself for a while, so it's hardly a consequence for her. She is only just 2 (at end of Jan) and I don't think she is ready for reward charts yet - and really, her behaviour hardly seems to warrant that. She is generally very good about nappy changes, getting dressed, teeth cleaning, hair brushing (well, maybe not so much), putting on coat, getting out the door, staying on the pavement, not biting, scratching or pinching etc etc. It's just these infuriating (to me) things are fascinating sources of knowledge to her.

girliefriend - Much of that would work with my 4 year old & probably has since she was about 2 3/4. It would not work yet with dd2 (2 in 2 weeks) She doesn't have the cause & effect understanding for reward charts, favourite toy removal etc etc.

Op what you seem to be doing is great - your dd sounds lovely - at this age they are experimenting & testing reactions