is it normal for toddlers to leave you feeling limp and inadequate on a daily basis?

[crapbarry]

DS is 16 months old, and a 'handful'. Friends with toddlers of similar age tell me the dreadful things their little darlings occasionally do, such as empty a bag of rice on the floor, hang off the dogs ears, climb onto the table, etc. But these stories tend to be told with laughter in the eyes of the parent, and a wry chuckle about what a delightful and funny baby they have, and aren't these one-off events hilarious.

I can't laugh about DS at the moment. He is driving me to despair with his 'antics'. Yesterday he somehow got upstairs and flung himself down the staircase whilst I had stepped into another room. He also climbed into the toilet. This was before 8 am. Today he dragged a chair into the kitchen and climbed onto the stove whilst I was hoovering up the breadstick he'd crumbled into the carpet. He also climbed onto the table and ripped up DH's pay slip (delivered today). We don't have anywhere to put things out of his reach any more because he can climb bloody anything, so have to watch him like a hawk at all times, and know that the split second we turn away, he'll do something ridiculous, and almost definitely dangerous (like suddenly learn how to undo his car seat buckle half way down the motorway, or his highchair buckle, and suddenly stand up and launch himself out of it).

In his bath this evening he pooed on 3 separate occasions - each time I whipped him out, put him on the potty we got for these incidents, and cleaned the bath. Back in the bath, he promptly did another aquatic delivery. 3 fucking times.

He screams blue murder at having his nappy changed, or indeed any addition of clothing. Tooth brushing brings such howls of despair you'd think it was covered in spikes. He has taken to biting me hard at the end of a feed, then screaming and kicking because I refuse to feed him. Both are painful.

Nursery and the childminder both say he is a delight, but a lot of work - which I'd normally agree with. But this past couple of weeks have been absolute hell. He's only sleeping a few hours a night and minutes in the day, but is absolutely not tired the rest of the time. The nursery even say he is incredible for the amount of sleep and constant need for one on one attention he has. The is sometimes said admiringly, but more often than not wearily.

I'm at my wit's end and so so bloody tired of it all.

Is this just a hellish phase, do you think?

Yes, it's a hellish phase! Don't worry, he'll grow out of it by the time he's 25!

As a matter of interest, does he get enough physical activity during the day? My DD was a very physical tot who needed to be exercised for a few hours at least twice a day to calm her down. Good luck!

I hope that's a typo and you meant 25 months :o

at weekends he gets a lot of exercise and it makes no difference - only day he's basically sedentary is a thursday, the rest of the time he's on the go all day! we've got him walking about a mile at a time at the weekend, and he still has this constant need to get into mischief!

This too shall pass?!

Get down to a park with a ball and run about with him.
It might work, it might not, but st least you'll have had some fresh air and exercise.

Didn't want to read and run, so v quickly as about to eat - in short, yes absolutely. My toddler, now 2.10 was exactly like this, probably from about the same age

You are at the point of maximum impulse/testing boundaries and minimum reason. Very very hard work. It does get (a bit) easier as they get more rational

I know you say he doesn't need more sleep, but if I were you getting him to sleep more would be the first place I would start, and then at least you could discount that as a cause. I know it's much much easier said that done and we have been through some hideous non-sleeping/massive tantrums around bed & sleep times, but investing time in getting proper sleep (and I worked on it for months) is one of the best things I did for his behaviour

Anyway HTH, DH getting stroppy at me typing and not talking to him ....joy

Sorry x post.

All I can say is "good luck!"

puppster - may i ask how you got proper sleep? We've just got him to the stage where he lies down in his cot and goes to sleep with us just sitting next to him, sometimes playing with our hand. but he only sleeps for 3 or 4 hours, then is up and faffing around all bloody night - occasionally we get him back down for 3 or 4 hours more, sometimes it takes calpol to do so. We're seeing a HV sleep specialist soon, but will try absolutely anything at this stage!

thanks for the replies :)

can't reply now because of supper/DH, but will reply later I promise!

Hi there

Sorry, taken ages to come back

OK, so this is based on my own experience and of course may not apply to you, but for what it's worth, here it goes, am trying to be brief, could write pages ...

• I was definately a bit PFB with DS, not very good at letting him settle himself when tiny. I also realise now I have another DC that actually the reason he wouldn't settle when tiny was because he was hungry. Anyway, that aside, I'm not sure he ever learnt to properly settle himself

• I never worked on day time naps, and he only used to sleep for 40 mins at a time in the day, so never got past the initial sleep cycle. I now think this is essential for good night sleeping

• our major problems started when he moved into a bed. Not my choice, he was climbing out just before he turned 2. Then all hell broke loose every night, at bedtime, in the night and early waking. If you can crack the sleep thing before you're in a bed, that may head off some of these issues

• we finally, having tried everything from the rope trick (ie locking him in) to crying it out, we did silent return. Ie put him back in bed repeatedly with no fuss time and time again, until he got the message. I still have the list from the first night - 30 times at bedtime, 30 times in the night, then woke at 6.30. I found silence a very powerful tool, particuarly as I was so enraged by the situation, staying silent also meant I wasn't going mad

• I appreciate he isn't getting out of bed, I think your DS is standing up in his cot and making a fuss/ crying etc. For us, the more we responded, the worse he behaved. It's the old thing of any attention is good attention, so you have to withdraw that.

• make sure your bedtime routine is good and at the same time every night. Tea, wind down, bath, story & milk is what we did.

• Then into bed, night night, leave room, DS kicks off. Back into room: night night, it's time to go to sleep, lie him down, leave room. DS kicks off. Back into room, it's time to sleep, lie him down. If not possible to lie him down, just a reassuring pat or stroke, then leave.

• After your 3 reassurances, go back in as often as you see fit, lie him down / pat / stroke briefly, and then leave, all in complete silence. You are with him for 5 seconds, no more. Repeat ad infinitum until he gets the message. Repeat as necessary for all night wakings.

• don't stay, don't let him play with your hand. As long as you are sure that he isn't hungry or ill, it is likely that the main reason he is waking in the night is that he hasn't learnt to settle himself, so yells for you, but actually is so over-tired and distressed, is past it at that point anyway.

• I think this is where working on the daytime naps helps as well I think. For sure, even now, if my DS sleeps long in the day (which happens about once every 2 weeks at best), he sleeps better at night

• your DS is only 16 mo, so pretty tiny in the scheme of things, so I am sure that you can help him to sleep better, and then hopefully everything might improve a bit.

It is likely to be pretty gruelling, if you take this path, but I found that with a plan I felt less desperate with the lack of sleep and strain of it all.

The final thing is to keep a record of each time you 'return' him, the number of times will reduce dramatically really quickly, and you need a written record to prove that it is working.

It's also worth saying that the bedtimes & night wakings were solved pretty quickly, within a few days, but the early waking was much harder, but hopefully that won't be your problem.

Anyway, I do hope this helps. My children are never going to be amazing sleepers, but it is 150% better than it was - this method really worked for me, and for him, I believe in the most humane, loving and reassuring way possible.

oh dear i do feel for you DD3 is now 4 and is very much like your ds she does part-time at pre-school and today between 9 and 11.30 she drove me insane. at 4 she understands that her behaviour is naughty but seams to enjoy having me run around after her clearing up her mess.
this morning she tipped a box of rice crispies all over the while i was clearing that up she went upstairs and let DD2s pet rats out of the cage then proceeded back downstairs while i was catching them and emptied 2 plant pots of soil over lounge floor next she flooded the bathroom, finally it was time for pre-school so i was able to get the house work done, but it is so exhausting having to watch them all the time

thanks for that puppster - I think the silent return approach sounds like a good idea. Our biggest problem is not getting him down, like I said - it's getting him to stay down! He is getting over another ear infection, so that's probably why he's being so absolutely awful just now!

he's in our room still, because we don't have space for him to go into his own room - we were meant to be moving last month, but the purchase fell through, so he's stcuk in our room for now.

think we might give the silent return approach a go next weekend, as he should have got over the ear infection by then. his daytime naps aren't such a big problem - he tends to have 1-2hours in total, and normally over 2 naps. We do know that if he naps past 4 pm, he will not sleep at night, so we don't allow that anymore! (Apparently I was exactly the same as a toddler, except my mum would just shut me in my bedroom and leave me to scream until I went to sleep - she said it would take hours most nights, so she and dad would just turn the TV up to drown out the screams. I'm not happy to do that with DS!!)

hope your DD3 gives you a break soon spstcp!!

That sounds really tough. Some practical suggestions based on my experience, which may or may not help...

Re the stairs, toilet and stove: Have you got stairgates? We have one top and bottom of stairs, and on the kitchen, so the living room can be 'contained'. DD can then run around and we've a large-ish space that's fairly child-proof.

Can you put a large blanket on the carpet? Then you can save yourself a bit of work and just shake crumbs off at the end of the day. Or just leave the crumbs and hoover when he's gone to bed?

Re climbing onto the table and ripping up DH's payslip, can you find a cupboard in the kitchen you can store post etc til it gets filed?

"know that the split second we turn away, he'll do something ridiculous, and almost definitely dangerous" - I feel your pain, as DD is like this, which is why the living room is where we spend most of the time - I can bring things in to do, like chop veg etc, so at least I can keep an eye on things while keeping us all fed.

Pooing in the bath - DD tends to poo in several bursts, so we tend to expect more than one explosion over about ten mins. With DD, the first poo signals the end of bath, nappy goes on quick, and then if face hasn't been washed yet we do that with water and cotton wool. You sound really stressed, I can empathise how frustrating it is when you're at the end of a long day, but you have to remember it's not that he's doing this deliberately.

Nappy changing - we have a song to go with our nappy changes, or we play hide and seek with the towel over face while dealing with the bottom end. Distract, make it fun?

Toothbrushing - DD likes the Tombliboos from In the Night Garden, we 'brush like the Tombliboos' and DD chose her own toothbrush. The latter made a big difference.

Re the biting at the end of the feed, DD used to hit after bedtime milk... we gave her one warning, if she did it again then we put her straight to bed if we're into the routine, or stop what we're doing if she hits at other times. If she screams, re-state why we've stopped and distract with another activity. (Usually she hits when over-tired.)

Re not sleeping - I do think if you can crack the sleeping he'd calm down for you... Is he over-stimulated? Especially near bedtime? DD was younger than your DS when she gave up sleep but bringing her bedtime forward really helped, counter-intuituvely. The No Cry Sleep Solution book might be worth a read, or have you tried white noise to settle him?
Good luck, it's tough.

Just wanted to add my sympathies. I remember 16-18 months being a particularly frustrating time with DS1 (DS2 now 14 months so bracing myself). However, I think you have it much worse. All I can say is that things started to improve when he began to talk and make himself understood, so I think we were both frustrated!

Hope it gets better soon - looks like you've got some good suggestions here.