Sleep problems

[lumama]

After another night of being kept awake for 2 hours from 2am, I decided that I could really do with some advice. My very strong willed daughter, 3.4 and middle child, either refuses to go to sleep or she wakes in the night for 2 to 3 hours. She usually wakes up needing a wee and then refuses to go back to sleep. Last night I tried supernanny tactics of putting her back into bed without reacting, saying anything or looking at her. Every time I did this she would be out of the bed again before I had even got to the door. I lost count of how many times we did this between us. She comes up with every excuse not to go to sleep, needs a wee, tissue or drink or various parts of her body hurting. In the end last night she was sobbing for a hug and I gave in and she went to sleep. I now think that I undid everything we had done the 2 hours before but I just couldn't ignore her on that one.

Is there anyone else who has had the same and is through the other side? This isn't a new thing to be honest, she's been bad at sleeping and has woken in the night since a baby. It goes in phases - the trouble is, she has got into the habit of going for a wee in the middle of the night and this starts the cycle.

Sorry for the long post, I haven't even gone there with the refusing to go to bed and sleep, that'll be another post maybe!

I have!

It is very hard and tireing and I wish I had all the answers but unfortunatly I don't.My dd does the same, wakes up and then she does not want to go back to sleep ( well on her own)

So she will say variouse things to keep us in her room! took her to the doctors in the end as it was going on for a while and tried everything.My dd is 6 and I knew that there was something wrong.

Doctor gave me some phenagen to calm her down at bedtimes but it is not a long term solution so now at bedtime its a bit hit and miss.

Some nights she sleeps and some nights she cries and moans ect.. It is very hard and I only wish I had more advice, I just hope it is a phase.

I am still there and was just about to post a message myself. We take my DD 2.6 and younger child for a wee before we go to bed, sometimes she sleeps till 4 or 5am , other nights she wakes in the night (last night it was 1am and then again at 4am). I go to settle her (she screams blue murder if DH dares to go in) and sometimes she is quiet straight away, others its "I need a wee/poo/tissue or I am hungry". Last night DH tried and she screamed until she was almost hysterical.

DH works shifts so on occasion if its after 4.00 I drag her into bed with me where she eventually falls asleep.

Like your DD she has never been a great sleeper and we persevere hoping that one day she will sleep through but I am drained and exhausted.

Oh any DS (4.10) will not go to sleep at bedtime - last night it was 9.30pm!

As much as I love them at the moment I would happily give them away!

Yes, we've been through that off and on since DS turned two (and I'm afraid we still have bad patches where he'll be up for hours in the middle of the night, and he's four and a half now). Having suffered it for more than two years now, I can see that the mammoth night wakings mainly happen when either he's overtired or he's overstimulated. I find now it can break the cycle if I can persuade him to sleep in the day (in the car usually) and then to have a very 'boring' unstimulating few days (these usually have to happen at the weekend as he's at school now). We always let him into bed with us, because I think that if he's going to be awake for hours I'd rather he wasn't alone with his worries. But I know that won't suit everyone.

If she really is waking cos she needs the toilet, would it help to try to restrict drinks for an hour before bed, and/or take her for a sleep-wee when she is deeply asleep (say about 10pm).

FWIW we tried the above with my DD (at about 3yo) and it worked, and we also refused to get into a conversation with her. She would try everything she could (at bed time and in the night) to procrastinate, so in the end we had to almost ignore her - sort of a bit like the supernanny approach I guess.

Yes we do the sleep-wee thing and it works, she always has a wee and goes straight back to sleep. I know that sometimes she doesn't need a wee but we have spent such a long time getting her to this stage it doesn't feel right to say "you don't need a wee".

If she and DH engage in a battle then she always ends up wetting as she has got in state

I think I will have to try and use the avoid talking to her approach.....

I don't think it is needing a wee that is the issue - it's just yet a reason for her to be awake. She has been trained at night for a while and can go through. I'm also really strict about no drink after 6pm.

I just don't know if it is another ploy to get attention (middle child syndrome) or if she genuinely is not happy sleeping (night terrors?).

HI, you have my sympothay we too have endless problems with my DD nearly 4 now and have bad patches where she to is up3-4hrs in the night. We found getting her to settle herself at night when going to bed has helped her to resettle herself in the middle of the night.

We have had all the usual excuses to get up, the latest being monsters keep her awake. And I've not even tackled the getting the nappy off at night as its sodden but know I have to do that soon rather than later, especially with Baby No2 on the way.

The silent no attention thing has helped and yes we have screaming banshee when she doesnt get her own way.... We do sticker charts for good nights, if she gets 7 she gets a reward normally a magazine or sticker book nothing more than £1-£2. And Lots of praise. She has a night clock so knows when its the 'right' time to get up, and a toy that keeps the monsters away, plus a dim nightlight.

And yes we have tried Pherghan for 3 nights in row (from GP) when it gets really bad to 'break' the cycle if its a bad one give everyone in the house the strength to be 'tough' parents again. After dreadful xmas and new year we have had 4 nights now where she has slept 8/9-6am which is FAB in our house. We were averaging 2/3 gd nights and 2/3 disrupted nights/ 2 vbad nights a week.

I am feeling like I have tried everything - rewards, stars, praise - none of it seems to work.

I may go and invest in some Phenegan to try to break the cycle. I must admit we have used Medised in the past despite the new age guidelines - unfortunately it doesn't last all night though.

2cats2kids - I know how you feel - the day after, I would quite happily trade her in.

Not sure if this would help you lumama, but we used a gradual retreat program using a camping mat to sleep outside her door in the hallway, this way she slept in her room and we got some sleep. My DH and myself took it in turns. Then after a couple of nights we moved the bed down the hallway, by the end of the week only our head was poking out of the next door way - on the camping mat - now we leave the camping mat there but sleep in our bed. Some nights we have to go back to the camping mat but we have had 5 nights in a row now where just its presence has helped her to resettle herself. I dont think you ever fully get to perfect sleep but it does make it a little easier. This technique is a variation of that in the Millpond Childrens Sleep Clinic - google it the book was £5 on internet not ground braking but first resource that said not all children response to crying it out technique which reassured me.

I would recommend using something to break the cycle it helps to make you feel like you can gain some control back. Its horrid having your child 'ruling' the house - thats what we felt like as we were all zombies and no one was happy.

Good Luck its very tough x

I forgot to say the 'threat' was that if she didnt try to resettle herself we wouldnt stay on the camping mat. She was having night terrors and we had to do a monster busting kit as well. Spray bottle, big cuddle toy both help to empower her to make the monsters go away.