Smacking

[InspectorGadget]

Am struggling a little bit with my 17 month old. He is a very willful toddler, full of energy, very exuberant, plays rough with other children including kids MUCH older than him (will happily huckle them to the ground etc) pushes, shoves, slaps etc etc etc. Now I know this is all fairly normal behaviour for his age, but am finding it hard to know how to deal with him.

I usually tell him NO in a firm tone of voice and tell him he's not to do that, it's not nice etc, but he usually totally ignores me or laughs in my face (I think it makes the 'game' more fun). I have never ever smacked him, and to be honest am not sure that I COULD smack him, but am starting to wonder if a wee slap to the back of the hand might help?

Am thinking mostly of times when he is out of control and behaving dangerously. For example at toddlers he pushes open the (very heavy) double doors to the hall and gets out into the lobby and to the front door of the building. He runs fast! I'm heavily pregnant and finding it realy difficult to keep up with him. He's not in immediate danger at toddlers as he can't get out of the main door but it's the lack of boundaries that concerns me.

He's just a baby really and I don't know how to make him understand.

Any thoughts or opinions on smacking such a young child (and I AM talking just a slap to the back of the hand, not a leathering or owt) or how best to try to instill some boundaries in a 17 month old.

Please, no flaming, I feel like a total failure as a mother to even consider it. :(

My DS was very similar to yours, so I totally understand your POV, if he is endangering himself, he has to be made to understand, and even when he isn't it is very difficult to live with this behaviour. I may be about to divert the flaming from you onto me when I admit that I have smacked him.
On the one hand it tends to work, albeit temporarily sometimes, however, the main warning that I would give is that I have found myself hitting him hard when very frustrated by him and he also will now say "I'll smack you" - the very behaviour we are trying to avoid.
I have shocked myself and felt awful at hitting him and feel that I sounded like a wife abuser in that it was a slippery slope, the first one was not hard but it felt like when he made me lose control then I hit him - dreadful and I am very ashamed of myself.
I have managed to stop hitting him, by counting to ten, putting him behind his gate if at home (I could spend a whole day putting him back on the naughty step but would get crosser and rougher [embarrassed])or ignoring him where possible, and partly by the fact that he has now grown up a bit and got easier to handle.
I don't imagine this has helped you, on balance I would say do not smack as I wish I never had done it the first time but you have my sympathy in dealing with a wilful toddler!!

Don't feel like a failure.

But, no, it will not work and it's a mean thing to do and obv. a very bad example. How can you tell him off for hitting other kids in the playground if you smack him?

FWIW, DS got a few light slaps on his bottom when young. I did it because I come from a culture where it is still acceptable and he was my first child and I had no clue. It did nothing to improve his behaviour, even if it did stop him from doing whatever he was doing at that moment.Now with DD(almost 2) I'm managing very well by being consistent, by telling her off and by supervising. For example in the last couple of weeks she has tried to 'hit' us i.e. lightly tap us when displeased- I tell her 'no' in a very scary mummy voice, wag my finger etc- it seems to be working.

Don't smack-it's mean. Toddlers just don't have emotional maturity to control themselves well, smacking won't change that.

Thank you for your reply hillybilly.

You have highlighted my main concerns about smacking...... it can't be right to teach a small child to not hurt other people (for example) by hurting them.

It very much goes against the grain. Am just not sure what I SHOULD do. We've already had several reports of rough behaviour from nursery (he's in nursery 3 days a week) and just yesterday he came home with a big scratch under his eye where another child had bashed him in the face with a toy becuase he was being too boisterous with him.

Mostly it's not malice though, its just over exuberance, and often its (misplaced) affection.

Maybe I should just hope he grows out of it. Fast. :o

Aplogies for calling you hillybilly, hillihilly!!

Winnybella, I agree re the consistency thing. I get very frustrated with my hubby because he lets him away with things I don't and lets him play with things which are not toys (for examply he will give him his mobile to play with, or the tv remote and it drives me absolutely crackers, because I never let him have those things and then of course it is I who gets the tantrums. Grr)

The wee bizzum has already leant to wag his finger back at me. I think am just frustrated that the 'usual' things are not working for us as he is always one step ahead of the game.

Please don't smack him ! Its hypocritical to tell him hitting/shoving is wrong and then to hit him. Its giving him mixed messages.

What if you do smack him and he still continues ? Where do you go then ? A harder smack ?
He is very young and there is no way his behaviour will stop overnight. Continue to say 'No' very seriously to him and totally ignore the fact he is laughing.
Children will find it funny if they can get a reaction from a parent thats why it is important to stay firm and focused.

He's just a baby, smacking him would be ridiculous, and nasty

do you have a children's centre near you? There's a course called Mellow Parenting which has rave reviews, might be worth a look.

No, no childrens centre unfortunately. I like the sound of Mellow Parenting though. I need to get me some of that!

oh, bummer, no children's centre. Might be worth asking a HV if they know of anywhere running the courses? If mine were little again I would definitely do it.

I think you sound as though you are doing the right things already, even if he is laughing/ignoring you, it is going in, he is aware of your displeasure, and if you just persevere with the firmness/consistency, and remove him from situations if he doesn't respond, he will start to get it. You need to keep drilling in the messages about gentleness/listening/using words instead of hands etc as he matures, so he knows what he is meant to be doing even if he chooses not to do it.

toddlers are exhausting, and infuriating (and adorable )

at him wagging his finger back at you.

Re:boundaries- he's still very young and the onus is on you to make sure he's safe. DD is quite sensible, but still I would never assume that she won't just bolt into the street. So we walk on the pavement without holding hands, but I'm watching her like a hawk and am right next to her. Otoh, she has recently got the idea that she's not allowed to come near me when I'm cooking as it's 'hot'. Touching accidentally a hot radiator migt have helped- but that's the difference: it was the experience that taught her that hot is not nice to touch iyswim. Your ds is too young to understand that running into the street is dangerous.

Re: behaviour. I don't know. DS was quite a monster in preschool. You'll just need to wait and be consistent and, by all means, start to implement some sort of discipline when he's a bit older. Definitely not good for him to have two different parenting methods coming from you and DH. DP is less at home than me and so spoils DD a bit, without really realising it iyswim. She knows that when I say 'no', it's a no, but with DP...she has him wrapped aroung her little finger. You need to agree with DH on some rules re:what DS is allowed to do and what to play with etc.

You can't supervise him at the nursery, so the consistency has to be present at home. For now, there's not much more you can do.

Btw DS still pulls pranks in school, but has grown into a lovely, considerate boy who gets straight As- so there's hope!

They are that!

also IME the point at which you get really disheartened with what you are doing and think "oh fgs this just isn't working" - that's when you need to have a bit of self-confidence and just push though it, keep on persevering and being consistent - and the behaviour suddenly turns a corner

just a thought

Thanks very much everyone, loads of really good advice here.

Basically I just need to keep calm and keep going with what I'm doing.

Perhaps should save the slap for myself haha.

IG - you aren't a failure!

Yep the best thing to do is more of what you have been doing. Taking him away from the situation (so if at playgroup, taking him into the hallway etc). Hold his shoulders arms, look him in the eye and say 'No, no hitting' (or whatever) try not to just tell him off from a distance.

I really don't like reins, but I think for a child like this (esp when you are pregnant) can be a life-saver (both actually and metaphorically!).

Also, you need to have a proper conversation with your DH, explain to him how fed-up of it you are and that when he lets DS do things it makes your life much more difficult. Explain to him the affect it has on DS at playgroup etc and make it see that it will make DS one of those children no one wants to play with (most DH's get that more than just the nag nag noise they sometimes hear).

Save the slap for DH if he doesn't conform listen [bgrin]

I've found the best thing with a toddler is to make your boundaries clear through your actions. This doesn't mean smacking. So as well as saying no, either remove them from the situation or the situation/thing away from them. 'No' on its own is not that meaningful: backing it up with an appropriate action makes it clear that it means 'stop and don't do that again'.

And I agree with others that you need to talk to DH about what your parenting boundaries are - eg no mobile phones/remotes to be played with (and therefore kept out of reach and removed with a calm, firm no if they are picked up).

If DS opened the doors and ran out of toddler group, I'd say no and that if he does it again we'd leave. And we'd leave as soon as he did. (I've done this for climbing).

If he wants to stay at the group, he'll stop opening the doors. If he keeps opening the doors, it might be worth considering taking him elsewhere to play, eg a park.

The key is to be firm and calm. Unbending.

I'm no super-parent and have bad days, but this approach has worked the best. I have a lively DS and it is a challenge, but I hope I make my boundaries clear for him.

If anything these responses are giving me more confidence as am already doing everything that has been suggested (taking him away from situation, speaking firmly but not shouting, holding him with his arms against his sides and getting down on his level, keeping contraband out of reach etc etc)

Is disheartening though when all of these things fail so spectacularly! But will plod along and hope for a breakthrough, preferably before baby arrives in 7 weeks or so.

I'd be reluctant to leave toddlers early though, for one thing I don't think he would either understand the threat or care that much either way. It's only for a couple of hours a week, we spend time playing elsewhere (park, soft play etc) and tbh, toddlers is as much for me as it is for him.

The husband is def part of the problem regarding consitency. Will have (another) chat with him.

I understand about toddlers - I went to a group today while DS was napping, just so I could catch up with the other mums.

I just weigh up the stress of my DS doing these things and my chasing him, sometimes it's just easier to not be there in the first place.

I remember having a two year old and being pregnant - in a way the bit after the baby was born was easier, I was less tired.

DS had fallen asleep in his buggy, I took hime with me, he wasn't home alone!

Omicron [bgrin]

the book playful parenting by cohen on amazon has really helped with my strong minded toddler. read the reviews - it can really help.

i don't think smaking is the answer though by the way. why would you want to teach a child that its ok to hurt some one to get what you want?

Just a thought, but reading your posts I wondered how much time you get with DS to be the 'fun parent'? Do you get time to have proper 1:1 with him, or are you (like me) the one who is always bustling round in the background, doing numerous jobs so that you never really get that quality time, just in a constant state of fobbing off?
It must be hard when you are so pregnnat and I'm guessing, v. tired.
I could be barking up the wrong tree but wondered if making sure you have good times together now will help smooth the way for the pressures a new sib might put on your relationship with ds?

3seater, thats interesting re quality time etc. I think I spend enough time doing fun stuff with him, although yes there is a fair bit of fobbing off too when am trying to get housey stuff done. It's a fine line I suppose and who knows if am getting the balance right. Most days I feel about as incompetant as the day we took him home lol.

SkyBluePearl cheers for the recommendation for that book. Have just read the reviews...... wow it looks impressive.