16 week old won't go to sleep

[mamjo]

My DD has real difficulties going to sleep. All the usual stroking, rocking, patting, cuddling things have never worked but she would occasionally go to sleep on my shoulder or while nursing. Now though nothing works except being out in her pram. This is fine for daytime naps and we go out twice/three times a day for long walks to ensure enough daytime sleep but she wakes when trying to transfer her into her cot so not suitable for night times, plus i dont really want to have to spend the nights as well as the days pounding the pavements. I can sometimes get a result by getting her really quite tired before the last feed but if this doesn't work we are screwed.
I have tried controlled crying for the last 9 days but it isn't working. It is just distressing her and me and DH. We have a routine of bath, jammies, feed, bed, story, kiss. Then we leave the room revisiting every 5 mins then extending to 10 mins.
When she is asleep she goes 4 hours then wakes for feeding through the night but always goes back to sleep with no problems. She settles herself of she wakes at other time.

I am a first time mum and would love to hear any advice or tips.

My DS was a terrible sleeper and still is in truth but my DD sleeps for 13 hours a night and I have sdone the same thing with both of them! So sometimes I do eblieve some children are better sleepers than others.

I personally always believe that babies shouldnt be rocked, patted, cuddled, fed or pushed to sleep..... That does not mena you cannot cuddle her! But I think they do have to learn to self sooth and as you said she is happy to do it in the middle of the night. You have a good routine for her to realise it is night not day, but she is still very very little. I do also think that sometimes if you never let her just be in her room then bed becomes a place they dont want to go because they associate it with being alone. I used to play with mine in their rooms and put them in the cot awake whilst I was tidying etc so that the room was a fun, normal palce for them to be rahter than somewhere they get put at night. Sometimes they do just have a bit of energy to burn off before going to sleep and I have always found that a little cry is OK. if she is crying for hours though she is really too small for that IMO. It is a right old mindfield babies sleep so just keep on going I am sure you are doing great - ideally you just dont want her to develop sleep assiociations which she has to have in order to go to sleep / get back to sleep. Like being rocked, having milk etc . Good Luck

Thankyou loie

Have you tried baby massage? Or perhaps swimming a couple of times a week? Or maybe a rocking crib? Sorry not much use - but all three work with my 16 week old.xxx

Thanks Chelle,
We do baby massage, which relaxes her but as soon as she goes in the cot she just flips out.

I have today just been putting her down and sitting by the cot making loud shhhhhing noises. It seems to be workin a little. So fingers crossed I have found something.

Just wondering - maybe the cot is just still a bit to big for her? We have Olly in a crib at the min as his cot is just far too big still and he frets as he feels to open.xx

She went in the cot at 6 weeks and sleeps really well once asleep. She is way too big for her crib now. 19lb and 98 centile for length and weight.

Many thanks for taking the time to let me know yourthoughts

She;s too young for controlled crying.

Are you bf? She is probably still wanting to cluster feed. Mine did it. I personally think she is too young for the sort of routine you describe. My 2 year old has that routine....

Thanks try harder. The thing is she is really tired so this is not about me wanting a routine but wanting her to sleep for her own sake. I hate to hear her cry but she does it whether she is up or in the cot. I also don't think it's food related as she is fed on demand and rejects the breast when offered. She has set her own feeding schedule of every 3 hours and mostly sticks to it.

Thanks try harder. The thing is she is really tired so this is not about me wanting a routine but wanting her to sleep for her own sake. I hate to hear her cry but she does it whether she is up or in the cot. I also don't think it's food related as she is breast fed on demand and rejects the breast when offered. She has set her own feeding schedule of every 3 hours and mostly sticks to it.

Ahh, OK then. I just think she's too young to be left to cry by herself. I've read lots of theories over the years about why some babies cry and perhaps it's just colic or growing pains...who knows. But if she's full, clean nappy etc etc then if you are holding her, then it can't be as bad for her as being left in a cot and crying alone...

Would she sleep with you? Have you tried her in a sling? I actually disagree with Loie as I parent young babies in the attachment way. You might want to consider ruling out any medical condition - colic, reflux etc....

That aside, you may well just be looking for solutions to a problem that doesn;t really exist. Yes, she cries sometimes, she finds it hard to go to sleep... but she's still really, really young, and I am always amazed at people's expectations of very young babies with regard to self settling, adhering to routines etc....You may well find she grows out of it fairly soon.

I think she's too young for controlled crying, by at least 2 months of not longer.

I'm struggling to get my head round what she's doing. She sleeps in the pram 3 times a day, for how long and what times?

Then she struggles to settle at night, at what time? And she wakes twice in the night but goes straight back to sleep.

Is that right?

Perhaps she's overstimulated at night time? I bathed mine in the mornings for quite a long time as I found it would make them quite lively, and perhaps a story would have the same effect.

The routine sounds lovely for a few months time but is a lot of attention and excitement for a tiny baby. This is particularly suggested to me as the rocking, patting, singing and stroking doesnt work, and she goes back to sleep easily at night.

I would perhaps just suggest doing evening feeds in a quiet, dark room and then sit next to her without talking.

Hi mamjo. It does sound pretty normal (unfortunately!). Agree with tryharder. I think she is too young to pick up bad sleep associations and too young for CC so I would just use any means necessary including rocking etc.

I have a 10 month old who is a bad sleeper but she has got better recently, just grew out of it a bit. But it might get worse again, who knows. It's awful seeing them red-eyed with exhaustion but just not sleeping! I have been so frustrated. I tried all the bedtime routines, trying to acclimatise her to the cot etc to no avail. Some babies just find it difficult to sleep.

One thing that might work (for night time) is to put her to bed earlier. If you are waiting until she is really tired then she may be over-tired which makes it difficult for them to sleep.

ballstoit I think you are so right about the over-stimulation of the bedtime routing. Wish I'd skipped this for DD!

How long is she awake between naps? At that age, most babies can't go longer than 1.5-2 hours between naps (some less).

Putting her to bed earlier is something I'd definitely recommend too.

Thanks ladies. I will try dropping all but the feed and see what happens.

She gets up about 8.30. She naps for about 45-1hr at 10.30, 1.30, and 4.30. And then to bed at 7.30.

The last few nights I have continued to bit her down but have just sat next to the cot holding her hand. She doesn't cry quite so hard but still takes about an hour to go to sleep.

She hates being cuddled or held when she's tired and will kick and scream if you try and rock her.

She was colicky in the first few weeks but I don't think that's the problem now.

I will just have to accept this for a while and hope that she grows out of it.

She is a very happy smiley baby when she's not tired.

Why do you keep revisiting the room every 5 minutes ?
If you are stressed or anxious the baby will feel this.
Babies do not know that we expect them to sleep when we want them to so if you could relax and not have expectations I am sure she will settle into a happy bedtime routine.

You have a good rountine of bath,jammies, feed & bed,.. stick to that, even if it does not appear to work just now, and she will start to feel secure.
This really will not last forever,..Yousound like a normal, good, concerned Mum,.. just trust yourself - your baby is normal !

mamjo she sounds EXACTLY like my DD!! She got better about a month or two ago (in that we could actually cuddle her to sleep rather than being headbutted by her or something). Don't think you're doing anything wrong, it's a waiting game until she grows out of it.