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Original poster

Any ideas now my non-sleeper is turning three?

28 replies

clemetteattlee · 12/01/2011 22:44

A bit of background - my DS has always been a "challenging" sleeper. As a baby he woke VERY frequently and at 15 months he was waking every 45 minutes through the night. In desperation at that point we tried controlled crying but he seems to be one of the small minority for whom it doesn't "work" so after three nights we stopped. He started sleeping a little better (two hour stretches) when I eaned him from the breast, and he has been the same ever since.
He goes to sleep by himself after I have sat with him for a few minutes as he winds down after bath/bed/story. When he wakes in the night I go and give him a quick cuddle and leave him to drift off by himself. This can happen up to five times a night. If I don't go to him he simply starts screaming and crying. I have tried not cuddling him, and being very firm about the need for him to go to sleep but he still wakes frequently.

I have also tried to co-sleep but he won't sleep in the bed with me - he just wants to play and then get up for "breakfast" (sometimes at 3.30am!). I then have to take him back to his bed and this creates tantrums.
He is just about to turn three and I am bone tired and have run out of ideas. I know it sounds like I have been chopping and changing but we have gievn each thing a good try so far but nothing we have done has encouraged him to sleep longer than four hours at a time. So - does anyone have ANY ideas??

OP posts:
Original poster
clemetteattlee · 13/01/2011 08:02

Bump for the daytime

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Original poster
clemetteattlee · 13/01/2011 21:36

Anyone?

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MrsSnaplegs · 13/01/2011 21:55

Is he waking because he is weeing? My DD was the same until she was dry at night.

Original poster
clemetteattlee · 13/01/2011 21:57

That's a thought. I don't suppose that is something we can rush though??

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hellymelly · 13/01/2011 22:01

My dd has only recently started sleeping through most nights (she is 3y 8m)so I feel your pain.I do co-sleep,and I'm still breastfeeding her,but i never quite worked out why she was waking.Thirsty possibly.Not due to her needing a wee as she's been dry at night since she was 22m. She did not want to be awake though,she would get really angry at waking up,so it was a bit of a mystery.anyway it just gradually improved,with the odd relapse,and now she does sleep most nights,but sometimes wakes at about 10.p.m. What does your DS say about it?

Original poster
clemetteattlee · 13/01/2011 22:04

If it is before 4am he says he wants one of us to sit with him/cuddle him; if it is after 4am he wants breakfast! He too gets really upset about being awake - he has laways cried on waking, and in the night he gets really upset.

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Habbibu · 13/01/2011 22:06

Not quite the same, but when dd was coming up to three, she started waking at night quite a lot - I was pregnant and worried (and how right I was, given how shocking ds's sleep turned out to be). We talked to her about it, and said to her that if she slept all through the night we'd read her two stories in the morning - she loves stories, so it was a decent bribe for her, and if she managed a week, she got to buy a new book. It worked surprsingly well - we talked about it at bedtime, and if she woke at night we reduced it to one story if she didn't settle quickly, then none - all very gentle and friendly, but sticking to the plan.

That said, I may well be back because ds is another flaming story...

Habbibu · 13/01/2011 22:08

Oh, waking at night - how about introducing something like the Spoka nightlight from IKEA, and a new teddy, who will guard him, etc? dd also learnt how to switch her story CDs back on, so if she woke up at night, she'd switch them back on and go back to sleep.

If he is upset when waking, maybe buy him a timer, and say on the first night you'll stay for 5 mins, then 4, etc and if he gets down to 1 min by a week he can choose a treat?

Original poster
clemetteattlee · 13/01/2011 22:09

Thanks. He does go to bed every night determined to "sleep like a big boy" (in our case the incentive is glow-in-the dark stickers) yet when he wakes in the night he is beyond any reason. I have ruled out night-terrors but he is so het-up he cries and screams Sad

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Habbibu · 13/01/2011 22:17

Hmm. That does sound difficult. Does he have any music/stories in his room at night?

I really am wondering if this will be me with ds in the next couple of years!

Original poster
clemetteattlee · 13/01/2011 22:24

He does seem unusual - as each of my friends' children started sleeping through the night it became obvious that he wasn't going to. Saying that, I have accepted it until now but am thinking that three years is long enough!
He does have a light projector that settles him but it doesn't stop his frequent waking.

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sunshine76 · 14/01/2011 02:27

Please don't think this is a cop out suggestion but have you thought about using a sleep consultant? They deal with all kinds of ages not just babies. Could be your best shot if you feel you have tried everything else. I think the cost is justified if you can get him sleeping better.

Original poster
clemetteattlee · 14/01/2011 15:31

I don't really know that much about them. What do they do?

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bondgirl77 · 14/01/2011 16:35

clemetteattlee I feel your pain my DS also 3 is a really bad sleeper. Everyone who has one says they become better once they start school which tires them out. One thing I have tried recently is the No Cry Sleep Solution - there is a book specifically geared towards toddlers and preschoolers. I realised reading it that I often try to 'rush' his bedtime routine (book recommends at least an hour between start and end of bedtime routine) and now that he doesn't have a nap in the daytime he absolutely needs to be getting to sleep by about 7pm. I think my DS is woken by a full bladder (he no longer wears nappies at night) and I think even if they are in nappies the fact that they are potty training makes them more aware somehow that they need to go. If he is potty trained you could try popping a potty in his room and suggesting using it when he wakes? It is really difficult I know - getting enough sleep (DS and myself!) is the thing that stresses me out most about parenting! Also this book (and posting here) makes you realise how many people are also in the same boat with night waking and what is 'normal' to expect at this age. The only other thing I could suggest is do you have an old cot mattress you could bung on the floor in his room and sleep next to him whilst he goes back off? I sometimes do this and go back off to sleep myself, then wake up and creep out later when he's gone back off. Also do look up 'night tantrums' on google they are a different thing to night terrors, my DS had these and it seemed to be a stage he was going through which has now passed. NCSS is a book that has some really good suggestions anyhow! good luck though I haven't worked it out yet either.

Original poster
clemetteattlee · 14/01/2011 20:41

Thank you for your reply. I do have a copy of the NCSS somewhere in the house - I used it with DD (now almost 6), and tried with my son when he was younger but was frankly too tired to put it into practice. I will definitely ahve another read.
Our health visitor phoned today (first contact for over two years) and was "amazed" to hear that things have not resolved, so she has referred him to the community paediatrician. I will have a look at night tantrums though.
Thanks to everyone for their replies. It can feel a bit lonely when all the children you know have settled to sleep by aged two, and your own son is known by friends (meant affectionately) as "sleepless". I worry that it is used to define him when he so much more than a problem sleeper...

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bondgirl77 · 14/01/2011 21:51

Know exactly what you mean about being too tired to put things into practice. Tend to take the path of least resistance at 2am (and 3am and 4am!). Are there family nearby who could have him to stay for a couple of nights to get you rested enough for another go? Chances are he is waking for the cuddle he gets. I have found the most improvement I get in my DS sleeping patterns is if I am quite remote when going in at night. Having said that we've gone a step back the last couple of nights with two wake ups last night and a 545am start. Well lets hope the contact with the health visitor turns out for the best!

Original poster
clemetteattlee · 14/01/2011 21:56

I hope things improve for you soon too.

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OldieButGoldie · 14/01/2011 22:24

I once found a thread in the archives which conducted a poll to establish at what age mumsnetters DC had started to sleep through the night regularly. I recall that the majority fell into 2 categories - either quite early on (no more than a few months) or .... 3 ! Of course there were some in between (and some even later) but 3 came up a lot.

I was disheartened as my DS was about 21m at the time and never slept through. He is 2.10 now and still doesn't. I am still holding out for 3. Both my friends DDs started to sleep through at 3 too.

So hopefully the end is in sight Smile

Original poster
clemetteattlee · 14/01/2011 22:39

That is really encouraging! I think you do sort of "give up" on the idea of a sleeper at about 12 months so I haven't had that glimmer of hope for a couple of years.

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solongandthanksfor · 14/01/2011 23:02

No great advice, but you're not alone in having a 3 year old who doesn't sleep through.

Ds, just turned 3, has only had sporadic nights where he's slept through. Like your ds, he's always v cross and upset when he wakes up - sleep really does seem to send him a bit loopy. Our solution was similar to something someone else mentioned, and it has helped. A few months ago, when we moved him into a big bed, we put the cotbed mattress next to it, and when he wakes the first time, I go and sleep next to him. He seems reassured by this, as when he does wake, usually it's fairly momentary - he'll check I'm there, but then go off again.

good luck.

sunshine76 · 15/01/2011 02:18

Not sure if I am allowed to do this but I know someone who works as a sleep consultant google her name Dawnn Whittaker if you want to find out more. She is a friend of mine and has helped people all over the world with this issue for about five years now.

onwardsandupwardsnow · 15/01/2011 11:53

OMG this thread has made me feel so much better. DD has just turned 3 and still wakes lots.

On a good night she will be asleep for 7.30pm and wake once at 4am before starting the day around 6am - 7am if I am lucky!

On a bad night she is up every hour

Most nights are somewhere inbetween. She will wake around 11pm and again about 2am and 5am then up at 6am.

I am exhausted as a lone parent working FT could really do with some sleep. In the main I can cope and tell myself it will at some point settle and she will sleep.

Like the OP she wakes up really, really upset though and you can not reason with her. she is screaming and thrashing about but not because she is scared more that she is really annoyed with waking up!

She usually settles with a glass of water or a quick breastfeed.

I long for an uninterrupted nights sleep and find it difficult when well meaning friends offer their 'pity' that she still doesn't sleep though and often blame it on me still breastfeeding - I didn't sleep though til I was 5 and was FF!

Really hoping someone posts a solution on this thread soon!

Original poster
clemetteattlee · 15/01/2011 11:53

at $400 dollars I might have to try the NHS first but I will keep her name in mind!

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brokeoven · 15/01/2011 12:01

Hello,
My ds was almost 5 and had started school before he slept through the night.

Sound very very similar to yours in that he had always been (from birth) a terrible sleeper, despite every stratagie that we employed.

HV actually said there was nothing she could do to help us after so long.

So we accepted that this was the way he was and just worked around him.
Strict bedtime routine, he knew what was going to happen, wind down and in his bed.
He never came out of his bed or his room, but he had trouble staying asleep for any more than about 2-3 hours by the time he was 3.

We just rode the storm.
It did get better and when he did reach 5, he just naturally fell into a normal sleep pattern.

Admittedly i didnt know what had hit me, 5 years of sleep deprivation had a profound affect on me, so it felt good to go to bed, knowing that i would not get out of it till 5.30-6am the next morning. (he went for a very long time waking very early, this got better too) although still an early riser.

enimod · 15/01/2011 12:29

my ds is 4.6 and is exactly the same-my partner has to sleep on a mattress in his room as he wakes,screams or walks around in his sleep-he started school in september but his sleep has not improved-he is shattered-asleep by 6 but then up anytime between 5 and 6. the worst thing we did was cc at 9 monthhs it made things much muchh worse. he still since birthh haas not slept all nighht-evenn withh phenergan he still wakes,ds2 is 14 months sleeps a bit better but would like a lie in-however ds1 wants to wakke him as soon as he is up.