4 year old's behaviour

[twinkletoesxmas]

I am at my wits end. When my 4 year old dd is tired she doesn't do anything I ask her to which I can normally cope with but she often wee's herself in protests and if she can't be bothered to go to the toilet she will wee herself. This really upsets me. Tonight she just wee'd herself whilst sitting on the sofa, the toilet is metres away and she did not get up and go. I spend most of my day when she is not at pre school asking her to go to the toilet and it's a battle all day every day. If she goes by herself I am very complimentary and enthusiastic but most of the time she will say in 5 mins, and then just as she gets there will just wee. I am convinced she is doing it to annoy me. She is bloody hard work and as I write this she is screaming her head off at the top of the stairs. I have tried everything, ignoring the 'accidents' trying to catch them before they happen, etc etc...She is still in pull ups at night too. She says she wants to wear them till she is 5. I keep saying that we need to stop wearing them and that she can go to the toilet in the night (the toilet is next to hers and we leave the light on all night) she will not try,

HELP

Anyone? Any ideas on how to deal with this please?

I think it is a battle of wills which you need to win. Is there anything you can deprive her off if she wees like this? I know it is not conventional wisdom to "punish" wee accidents, but you say they are not really accidents and she has been told but refused to go. No computer time if wets after being reminded? Tell her calmly to go to the loo, then if she refuses and later wets, she loses favourite dolly for a night? No doubt I will get flamed for being harsh, but I think it is unacceptable of her to wee on the sofa if she is perfectly capable of using the loo. That said, my girl at 4 refused to do poos anywhere but in her happy, even though was using the loo perfectly proficiently for wees ("I prefer to do them in my nappy mummy" ) and eventually it did pass, and one day she just changed her habits, after gentle insistence on my part.

Thanks for replying. It is a battle of wills and wee accidents in the past I have ignored and we've just calmly got on with it but now she just can't be bothered to go in fact she told me that she pretended she had gone to the loo minutes earlier and then wee'ed on the sofa

I just don't understand why she is behaving like this and it's becoming stressful.

I'm going to start taking her favourite things off her from tomorrow. I explained all this to her and she has said that she will go when asked or when go when she thinks she needs to go. She really doesn't like her best things being taking away but I don't know what else to do.

My youngest is 2 and she will be starting potty training too and I don't know how I am going to cope.

I wouldn't worry about the night time thing yet, that will probably happen in it's own time.

Re: the daytime, if she won't get up to go, just pick her up and take her there.

Also try the training pants which hold a small wee to save your sofa and your sanity. They still feel they've wet themselves but it doesn't go quite everywhere and all over the carpet.

I sympathise as we had the same problem for many months but it did get sorted.

Sickof, I'm with you. I think there has to be some kind of consequence in this sort of situation. Otherwise they just think it's fine to wee everywhere and anywhere. (Obviously a different matter entirely if they can't control it or are new to potty training.)

Yabu to expect her to ditch night nappies. They are not like day nappies- if she doesn't produce a certain hormone then she won't be able to wake up to do a wee.

As for daytime- if she won't tell you when she needs to go and in good time, I would take her to the loo every hour so she can try to empty her bowels.

My son is 4 and when he needs a wee and watching tv, I have to pause it so he actually goes. If he wee'd on purpose while sitting on the sofa and watching tv I would have sent him to get changed and there would be a consequence like no tv for the rest of the day or getting changed into pjs and ready for bed early.

I know about the hormone thing and i am suspecting that it may not have happened yet? We have tried twice already and have gone back to pull ups. However the fact that she is not willing to try in the daytime or either entertain the idea till she is 5 makes me think she can't be bothered to try. Or maybe that's me being fed up with the whole thing. I think we'll leave the night time for now and tackle the daytime. Thanks for all your replies :) x

Doctors will only worry about night time wetting if she is over 7. Pyjama pants come ina size that's 4-7 as well as 8-12 years old.
I have 3 kids and my oldest was dry at night at almost 6, my middle child could do it as soon as I trained her in the daytime and my 4y4m old is still in pj pants at night.

Is this " i cant be bothered" attitude recent? or has she always been like this since potty training her? If it is recent how long has it been going on for?

I think you are right not to worry about night time, my ds is 4 and i havent even considered his night time training as yet.
My dd was potty trained by 17 months all lead by her, however she wasnt night time dry till she was about 4 they do it in their own time.

I am not a regular poster but felt I had to reply as I have a DD who behaves exactly like this.

My DD was 4 in January and we have similar battle of wills over going to the toilet (she is very strong willed just like me )Ever since she has been in pants (since 2.10) she has had good periods and bad periods and we finally think she has got it and we can relax and then we have another relapse.

We have just come out of another particulary bad period with her wetting herself up to 5 times a day and unfortunately some no2 accidents as well. I was at the end of my tether as she would be doubled over on the floor absolutely desperate for a wee but still refusing to admit that she needed one . We have done all of the ignoring the accidents/praising the good/reward charts etc. but found nothing to work long term.

Over the last year we have found several things that help so they might be worth a try with your DD, i'm not proclaiming they are the magic answer but I know how you feel so they might be worth a try.

1. Blame the accidents on 'Mr Bladder' not telling her in time and make telling him off a game. This takes all of the blame away from her because although she may not show it each accident does effect her confidence (my DD's behaviour would plummet after each accident)

2)Sit down with your DD and say that you can see that she is having trouble getting to the toilet on time and that it is difficult to remember. Write a list together of all the things you could do to help her and try to agree on 1 (we agreed that I would take her to the toilet every 1.5->2 hours whether she said she needed it or not). (aka see 'How to Talk so Kids will listen and listen so kids will talk')

3)Every 1.5->2 hours get her to stop what she is doing (this might mean you physically picking her up and taking her somewhere quiet) and ask 'Mr Bladder' if he needs a wee if she says no then accept it and say that you trust her judgment, move on without further comment and ask again in half an hour. (This one is really difficult to do for the first few days as you are just waiting for the wet patch!) My DD gets so engrossed in what she is doing I don't think she registers the signals until it is too late and if I just ask her then she automatically says no so you need to really get her to think about it.

As I say I don't think any of the above are magic solutions but I hope it makes you feel better to know you are not alone having these problems. We are in a good patch at the moment but I know come the next school visit/hospital appointment etc it will all go out the window again.

Keep your chin up and I really hope some of the above helps.

Thank you sleepdeprived i will try your tips.

Last night my husband and I decided that I would just ignore it today and see if she could go to the loo herself. She did take herself off to the loo a couple of times but she must have got there late. She was sitting on me and I could feel damp and I said 'you are wet can you take your wet clothes off and get some dry ones please?' And then an hour later those clothes were wet too despite her saying ' i need a wee' and actually going.

I'm not sure if she realises that the wee is coming out? I was trying to ask her but I don't get much out of her. I asked her if she wanted me to remind her again and she said she wants me to come with her too and that she doesn't need to remember yet cos she is not 5

I'm so so bored of it and my 2 year has been doing wee's on the potty all afternoon, only 1 minor accident, which is fab!!!

i am at the end of my tether

As hard as it is to do, you have to ignore (I speak from experience with dd1, anyway)

She is responding to the attention you give it (you say it is a battle all day, every day - that's a LOT of attention )

And as we know, kids thrive on any attention, positive or negative

So: NO reminding to go. NO cajoling, hassling, persuading, bargaining, threatening etc etc to make her go.

If she wets, say calmly "You're wet. You need to change your clothes". Say no more about it

Give lots of attention for other stuff she does. DON'T compare her toiletting efforts to those of her sibling. If she does go of her own accord, a simple "Well done, dd" will do, don't go overboard - you want her to think you are completely 'meh' about the whole toilet thing

It needs to be about a simple function (going to the toilet) not a method of getting loads of attention

HTH