Frustrated & explosive 4yo- do we need a professional? (long!)

[Sops]

DS is 4y8m and he has definite anger management issues which we are trying to address but seem to be getting more and more problematic.
We are in general a very happy, contented family. DD (6) is very well behaved and gets glowing reports from school-so our parenting skills can't be completely inadequate. But still ds seems to blow up or lash out at the least little frustration. If we ask him to do anything that he doesn't want to do he grunts and shouts and calls us names, hits, throws things, says he's going to kill us.

We practise all the positive parenting we can, praising for every little step in the right direction. We've tried naughty steps and time out and reward charts ad nauseam. They all seem to further exacerbate the behaviour and certainly do not prevent further outbursts.
His behaviour at school was causing problems but after a meeting with the teacher (ds also present) he has stopped hitting. However, he
still struggles to do as he is told and to sit quietly at carpet time without distracting the other children.

It can't be anything on the autistic spectrum as he doesn't tick any of the checklist boxes. In fact he's a very social child, has good language skills, loves books and toys, has a vivid imagination and great sense of humour.

I'm concerned that we need to get a grip on this problem sooner rather than later as he will soon be able to inflict real damage to people and objects. We are pretty much at a loss as to what to do now.
Should we get him seen by a professional and if so, what kind of professional?

btw he sounds really cool :)

Sops, this is all quite scary, reading your description of your DS. Mine is exactly the same. Even at 3am this morning he was driving me crazy questioning me about electrical circuits.

I do have to plan our days quite carefully to make sure that he has something to occupy him. One of our problems is that he doesn't like repetition. He wanted to learn to write so I bought the Jolly Phonic workbooks and we sat down together to do them. He wrote the first letter in the book and didn't want to do the handwriting practice because he couldn't see the point in practicing something that he did right first time. So everything has to revolve around art, playmobil and games. I've thought about chess now and again, but haven't got around to do finding my set.

My son needs lots of physical activity but again too much of it can result in a complete melt down. The tantrums are really quite horrific and as I said earlier, the calm down tent is helping a little.

I've spent quite a bit of time talking to him about how he must deal with other children who do things he doesn't like. Until recently, he was being quite physically aggressive and obviously I couldn't let this continue. We've recently had a breakthrough with this and I was really pleased to overhear him telling another child to stop hitting him instead of lashing out. It hasn't stopped him hitting his little brother with the mop today, but hey, small steps and all that!

Heroine, I really like your suggestion of learning something new myself to show him everyone needs to practice. Juggling sounds perfect too as I bet I'll be rubbish at it- I'm sure he'd think it pretty funny regardless. I think he is pretty cool too- thanks.

Llareggub, we have talked a lot about how important it is to be kind etc too. How did your breakthrough come about do you think?

I think there may be something in the repetition thing. A few months ago da did a page of number fours- I thought dd 6 and neat handwriter had done them at first) praps maybe he thinks he has accomplished that and doesn't want to revisit it?

The thing is now, I can write a really big list of characteristics. Most are things that completely 'normal' children might display but there are so many charactersitics displayed in this one person it does seem to add up to something not quite 'mainstream'. Many charactersitics point to adhd, many to 'gifted' (whatever that means?), maybe he has both issues, maybe he has neither?
Despite this big list I still am going to feel a bit of a fool if I go to the teacher saying I think he has x or y, and she might think "this woman is deluded!"
Do teachers have a lot of parents coming and saying this kind of thing to them?

oh dear this is spooky I did a page of fours like the typewriter 4 after we were taught the four with a cross (not connected at the top) at school then proceeded to be the only kid in the class doing trpewriter fours! :)

I would say have a look at that 'survival guide' book about how to handle a teacher - a lot of parents wrongly think their child is gifted, but you have some strong evidence here and you could also help other kids by raising this in the right way - the thing is to be positive and supportive of the school asn offer to partner rather than go head-on - I will try to get the name of the author for you so you can look it up - but I guess there are on-line resources too...

The thing that is worrying me most is that for whatever reason the behaviour is a warning sign that we mustn't miss. If he gets disillusioned with school and learning now I worry it will be very hard to undo and that's why I'm so kern to act now. But what to do?

I don't have much to suggest, but just wanted to second the suggestion that he might be gifted rather than adhd etc. He just sounds a bit like I apparently was at this age - in my first year at school my behaviour was apparently absolutely awful - violent, defiant, moody. After 2 terms they moved me up a year, and I was a different child. Plus my parents gave me loads of puzzle books and the like at home, as if I didn't have stuff to 'do' I was awful.

If you need to look for a label, I'd rather be looking at if a gifted label applies first (however much people tend to throw their hands up in horror at the mention of the word ). Try asking for help on the g&t boards as to what is a good first step for looking at this maybe?

Thanks lukewarm, I don't want him to be labelled in any way really BUT I do want him to be happy and fulfilled. The trick is working out the best way to accomplish that.

I've looked a bit more into g&t and adhd now and I think that dh is a good match for both as well as ds.

dh brothers used to call him zebedee and damian when he was a kid. And his mum often says how difficult he was. He is one of five brothers so I just thought prob his behaviour was for attention and it became a habit but maybe there's more to it than that.
Strangely though, he was very well behaved at school and got straight As all the way thorough.

Dh is loads of fun to be around but often I feel like I need to remind him that he is the parent not one of the kids. He has bucketloads of energy, always wants to be in control of everything. He is one of those people that just 'pick things up' without having to be told- has never looked at an instruction book in his life just knows how to operate or make anything. He used to write programs for computers when he was a kid, just for fun. Anything to do with computers or electrics is his field, but against him at trivial pursuits I always win- he is a very bad loser even now!

Dh finds ds much more challenging to deal with, clearly I can see now that is because they both find it nigh on impossible to deal with frustration- the two of them together is a total recipe for disaster!

Sorry Sops - just to be clear, I didn't mean the label thing sarcastically or as a dig in any way. I'm not sure why I put that - maybe because lots of the 'labels' can overlap (eg more gifted people are also on the autistic spectrum etc), and it often isn't at all clear cut whether a label should apply or not, so aren't necessarily a solution in themselves. It wasn't aimed at you at all, just a poor turn of phrase on my part. Obviously, getting some kind of 'label' will help in getting the right professional help for him if you need to go that far.

Good luck with this, hope you do get to the bottom of it soon.

Don't worry lukewarm I didn't take offence at all. I'm very thick skinned anyway!

Familiar story to you all from the sounds of it ... my ds is nearly 6. His behaviour - since turning 2 - is nothing short of horrific. He turns from a loving affectionate and calm child when alone with one of us, to a crazy dog, sometimes due to the slightest frustration or provocation, sometimes just because he is bored, and usually when we are in public or he is with his brother (aged 3). He attacks me and his brother. The humiliation in public is horrendous - I just have to suck it up and keep as calm as I can. He was diagnosed with ADHD last month, but I remain unconvinced. When the psychiatrist described it, I realised that I probably had/have it. I overcome all my probs and went to Oxford and career success, so it did not hold me back. My ds has lots of my character traits, but not as strongly, but his explosive temper is like nothing I have ever seen. The psych mentioned something called 'Explosive Child' syndrome. I googled it, then bought a book by Ross Greene about this. Have of you had this mentioned to you? Other than the 'calm tent' (which I will now try - we currently send him to his room), have you any tips? I also lie in my bed at night worrying about him - what on earth will his life be like if I can't help him control his temper. All thoughts welcome.