5 year old 'attitude'

[WelshSara]

My daughter will be 5 in 2 weeks. She's generally a lovely child, is quite exact and particular in her ways but kind and considerate to others. She's well behaved out of the home but I'm noticing more and more that she has a sulkiness and insolence towards me, and my Step-Mum (her main Nan). Small things like, asking me to choose hairclips for her, then not listening to me; pouting when I'm helping her or asking her to do something. She recently complained that the hairbrush was scraping her ear when I brushed her hair, so I covered her ear with my palm to protect it, and she slapped my hand away in temper.

She also answers back, always contradicts me, and it's starting to get to me to be honest. My step-mum admitted that she's doing it to her too, which annoyed me more - we do the most for her, yet it's us that cops her worst behaviour. Today, mu Step-mum was explaining something to her and my 5 yr old shushed her and stomped away. I've pulled her up on it and said that if she continues to be mean, then nice things won't be done for her. I know this sounds lame, but I really don't know how to handle it. Help!

I await replies with interest. I have a 5 year old boy who is now in his bedroom after having a huge tantrum over a ridiculous little thing. Almost like a power struggle. Complete melt down. I too am at a loss. Hope some problems are due to Christmas change of routine-[had some problems with over lively behaviour on the last weeks of term too]. I won't go on more as I'll take over your thread...but arghhhhhh!!!!

Err also getting answering back as did his teacher at the end of term..not good! Yet he too is generally a kind, bright enough and thoughtful boy. He has always been considered 'exuberant' - teacher speak for pain in the arse?! However there seems to be an element of frustration in his attitude at the moment. Also more prone to tears than usual. All quiet on the Western Front at moment. He has just said sorry and had a cuddle.

Ok- it seems to be just you and me at the moment Welsh Sara. Just reread your post. I also do most of the childcare. My son is much politer on the whole to his dad who has a tendency to do most of the 'fun' things eg cinema, panto etc while I look after his 18month old brother. I think it is probably normal for those who have to do the day to day stuff to get the most 'stick'. My son is a bit older than your daughter at 5.6 and I have been trying to explain why his behaviour is hurtful/ inappropriate. He does seem to understand but of course he is 5 and all will be forgotten during his next strop I'm sure. I think it is a power struggle sometimes. He has a tendency to think he is always right and maybe doesn't accept adult authority always..especially mine! I'm sorry I am not being very helpful. I am trying to focus on the positive with him and hope it is a phase.

Aargh! I took an absolute age to respond on my Christmas mobile and the answer isn't here!! .

I've thought about a behaviour chart but don't really know how to go about it in an effective way, plus I've always expected (and had) good behaviour and never felt before that we should 'officially' reward our kids for something that should be there anyway. Still, I'm willing to learn.

School is an issue - for a kid who seems to do well in most stuff - she's constantly complaining about school. Is it to get a reaction from me? She also seems to disagree with everything I say and I often feel that she's 'looking' for a confrontation. This all seems like pretty sophisticated stuff for a not-yet 5 year old, but it's how it makes me feel. I too, cluttermountain, am trying to focus on the positive, but it's whether to ignore, or punish the negative that's confusing me .

Sorry for the epic - I suppose I don't want this behaviour spilling into school and other places. I also have nightmares about her being like this in teenage years, and that frankly, makes me want to reach for the vino lol.

Oh come 7.30pm when my 2 hopefully in bed, there will be a glass of vino in my hand I worry that I can end up shouty and shrill which is hardly the best example for ds. I have tried reward charts with very limited success. As for school, if the teacher isn't complaining you are probably ok. My sons teacher seems exasperated with him and I am getting nervous when picking him up from school. I don't think my son is very sophisticated. He has good intentions but he gets over excited/silly/ down right stroppy and he seems to lose the capacity to think rationally. Problem is then danger of me turning into a harridan and making things worse. Sometimes I think I need methods just to stop things spiralling. His teacher asks him to calm down and take deep breaths...err my ds asked me to do that the other day..did defuse situation and we both deep breathed! Hopefully someone who knows what they are talking about will come on and advise us soon..

Kids often misbehave with those they are most comfortable with, as if they're testing the bondaries of your love.

Best thing you can do is set clear firm boundaries - which has obviously been working up till now, but they're getting that bit more independent and testing the fence, as it were

With reward charts, find 4-5 behaviours you want to change, eg: cleaning teeth nicely;
choosing clothes appropriate for the weather; eating a portion of fruit or veg with every meal; getting out of the bath the first time she's asked. Don't tackle everything at once, mix it up between stuff you think is important (fruit and veg, cleaning teeth) and stuff she'll achieve easily (clothes - as long as she doesn't wear sandals in the snow, that one's easy!)

Then find something she really really wants. Cbeebies magazine once a week. Trip to the park and coffee and cake with just mummy, no siblings, once a week. Or, medium sized toy once a month eg: sylvanian family set. Or, give a tiny reward daily - buy a big multipack of sparkly hairclips and she can earn one a day.

Move the goal posts every 4 weeks or so. Keep the expectation of what she has learned to do, but add more and harder eg wiping her own bottom, brushing her own hair...

HTH

Ooh, cluttermountain, not sure I qualify as someone who knows what they;re talking about! But I do work with people with SN, so have some specific experience...

My dd who is nearly 4 is exactly the same.She has an attitude and is quite capable of the defiant stare when she wants.Ive tried rewarding good behaviour and taking away toys/treats.She just stares and says "whatever" or rolls her eyes with her arms folded !Dh is stricter and will tap her bum when she is particularly silly but its me that cops for most of it.She is bright,independant and lively and I would love to nip this in the bud before I start to shout even louder than I do at the moment!

Purple - thanks! Sounds like a plan.
As daft as this sounds, what kind of reward chart? Where do I get them? She's getting into the hand of reading quite nicely now, so one that's visible/understandable to her? Have never thought of them before, let alone bought one. Do T*sco's sell them?! lol.

Get a cheap white board and some magnetics, then treat it as a very simple excel spreadsheet
B=Behaviour you want to change
y= yes she achieved it
n= no she didn't acheive it

....B1...B2...B3...B4
Mon..y...n....y....y
Tue..y...y....y....y
Wed..n...n....y....y
Thu
Fri
Sat
Sun

Or, get some pretty fridge magnets and stick them up when she's done what she was supposed to - you'll need one for each behaviour x 7 days a week. Or nick one from here

It's all very Supernanny, but based on ABA principles - Applied Behavioural Analysis. Keep your fingers crossed I'll be able to remember all this when I'm actually a parent, not just a support worker LOL

Purple - that's great. And the fact that you're not yet a parent probably means that you're able to apply logic to the situation (something which I lost when becoming a Mum, along with the ability to remember, multi-task, do something selfish for one's self, not feel constant guilt lol).

Seriously, am thinking of giving this a go. My problem is, and I know I'm probably being a bit anal about all this, is how much behaviour do I condone? For example, one of the behaviours/actions I'd want to work on is her stroppiness towards me. I can hardly expect her to be perfect all the time can I? Does it mean that I black mark her at every strop or should I show her some leniency? Aaargh!! My brain has serious shrinkage I think!

Morning all. Thanks purple, I will buy a white board today!

I came on here about to post a very similar thing about my dd (5.9). She's always been pretty good but just over the christmas holidays she's turned cheeky, argumentative and stroppy. Typical example:
Me "I think you should put your shoes on now"
DD "Oh you do, do you?"
And repeating things I say in a slightly sarcastic tone of voice...very irritating.

I tried talking to her calmly about why she was being like this, but she didn't seem to be able to answer, other than saying she didn't like sharing with her little sister all the time. I took this to mean that she needed a bit more one to one time, and she was better when I gave her my full attention, but clearly this isn't possible all the time. I'm hoping it was partly due to Christmas over excitement and that now she's back at school the behaviour might return to normal......

Hi Runoutofideas. Is your DD mimicking you? I have this sarcastic phrase which I've used on DD and husband (many a time no doubt) and I was mortified to hear my DD reflecting it back to me and her younger sister. I've also heard her demanding things in a certain tone of voice that I don't like, and have realised (again mortified) that it's the way I've been talking to her recently. Perhaps she's learning from you? This is not a criticism (by far!) by the way, because I've been caught out too recently.

It must also be definitely an age thing - too many Mums in my DD's age group have the same gripe - Purple in the post above, made a few interesting observations in terms of testing boundaries and I think she may have a point. Our kids are growing and whilst I can say confidently that I've always had firm boundaries and expectations from my kids, now that DD is growing, I probably need to move those boundaries a little and re-affirm certain expectations i.e. DD is getting more sophisticated in her speech and language but certain phrases and ways of communicating are not appropriate for little girls. It's certainly made me think twice about what I say, let me tell you! lol.

ANyway, maybe I'm totally off the ball here, so apologies for the ramble.

And of course, just to add, that Christmas does send us all a little dippy - maybe it's just a blip, in which case, this behaviour will quickly vanish for you all(fingers crossed!).

Sara, I suggest you sit on it hard. However, don't give "negatives" for poor behaviour. If she's polite, does as she's told without arguing, does something kind for you etc give her a surprise bonus point instead. Obviously still tell her that her tone of voice is unacceptable and that she needs to apologise, but do it in a very neutral way so as not to reinforce the behaviour with extra attention.

Runout, putting her shoes on is not a matter of opinion, it's a fact. Next time, try "It's time/You need to put your shoes on now" or "Put your shoes on so we can go to the park and play". You're the adult - she's not even six yet, she doesn't get a choice!!