At what age do you think a child should be able to do simple things on their own?

[TooMuchCaffeine]

DSD was 11 in November. She lives with her mum and visits occasionally for a few days. She needs to be told to do everything and does not seem to have any self motivation at all. Is this normal for an 11 year old?

DS is 7 and loves making his own jam sandwiches and getting himself a drink and almost every day asks to make breakfast. ALthough we do not let him use electrical equipment or hot water. He picks his own clothes to wear and seems to want to do things like make cakes, pancakes, load dishwasher, help with hoovering - to the extent that we have to say no to him (particularly when we are in a hurry).

I find myself getting fed up with DSD just sitting there waiting for instructions and showing no motivation at all and wishing she would just DO SOMETHING! At the moment they are both watching TV downstairs. If I don't go down, DSD would sit there in her dressing gown all day and let DS tell her what to do. When they are playing DS gets very controlling and takes the lead because DSD hardly has and ideas about what SHE wants to do - and sometimes I have to intervene on her behalf to give her a break.

Does she ever get to spend time with her father on her own?

Relationships are reciprocal between adults, not between adults and children. You chose to be with her Dad, you chose to have a child with him. She didnt choose her situation, and presumably didnt choose to not see her Dad for 6 years.

It's understandable that she's resentful and probably a bit jealous of your DS. She's also likely to be protective of her mum, are you careful to hide the disdain you feel for her mother?

Does she ever get any time alone with her dad?

Sometimes DH goes to London to visit her on his own, and it is usually OK. I have also taken her out 1 to 1 - we went clothes shopping and to Costa Coffee - she was fine and we had a great time, but within hours of getting back here, the sulky thing started up again and I found myself wondering why I bothered, particularly as DS was so upset that I had taken her out and left him behind. That's why I think the thing about betraying her mother is probably right.

Balltoit - where did I say I feel disdain for her mother - I don't actually. Her mum gets on better with me than she does with DH actually, but we are not friends, just cordial. I do take your point about choices though, you are quite right. However I do feel there there should be some degree of reciprocity between adults and children - even if you think about the expectations of how people are supposed to behave, for example the way a child interacts with their teacher in a respectful way. If I am being kind to someone, and looking after someone, I would at least like to be shown respect not to be frozen out in my own house surely. She is a good mannered child and knows how to behave.

If you are waiting for her to be grateful you will have a very long wait.

You are the adult and she has as ballstoit no choice about her situation which must be frustrating for her.

You and your dh have to be the ones giving with no expectation of being appreciated. I know it's hard for you, but it is worse for her.IMHO

Yes I guess you are right schroeder. It is very hard though to feel like you are the wrong person all the time - I am only human after all.

I haven't read the rest of this but 11 is a difficult age for a girl and she is not in her own home. I think you should give her a bit of a break.

Ah you do have my sympathy, it's hard enough with your own children.

DH has come back from work and is bringing her back to London as previously planned. I feel mentally exhausted so I am going to sit in my comfy chair and stuff my face with leftover Christmas pudding then make a nice dinner for DS and one of his little friends who has just shown up on the doorstep.

But if she only visits occasionally, does it really affect you that much if she thinks you're the bad guy? And as I said in my previous post, I don't think she sees you as the wrong one, she sees you as the person to take her frustration out on.
You and her dad and your son have a lovely family unit that she really isn't part of, and each time she visits she's reminded of that.

When we have tried to speak to her mum (who is very similar to her)but she is so defensive where DH is concerned she just sees it as an attack and gets defensive saying "she's only young".

You seem to assume that her mum is wrong, and that you must be right. She is very young, and at a difficult age. I agree that you should expect respect, but maybe you should show some respect for indicidual personalities, instead of comparing unfavourably with your DS all the time.

Does your DH see there's a problem with her behaviour? How does he deal with it?

Generally I think it makes sense to ignore poor behaviour, but this only works if you praise the wanted behaviours and you have a respectful relationship with the child.

You can't give up on your DSD, even if you want to. Whether you like it or not, you've got her father and she hasn't - she just gets occasional access, where she has her nose rubbed in his general absence and the huge significance that has had on her life and that of her mother and her mother's family. And one minute you seem to want her to behave like one of the family, helping herself to her own breakfast and offering to do the hoovering, like your ds, and the next you want her to behave like a polite guest who hides the naturally sulky, moody nature of a normal 11-year old girl going through the start of puberty... Clearly she is just as confused as you as to how she should actually behave.

I feel for you, because you are in a very difficult situation in which you will never be viewed by your DSD as being in the right, even if she might one day grudgingly admit she likes you a little bit, if you keep on making the effort... But that's life, and condemning your DSD for her uncomfortable and difficult feelings, just because she is successfully passing some of her pain on to you, is not fair. She may have been a baby when her father left, but that didn't stop it having a colossal and negative impact on her life, however nice all the people involved in having that negative impact.

Actually I don't think she should hide her behaviour or expect her to be a polite guest. I would like her to feel comfortable enough with me or her dad to say if there is something she doesn't like. And I/we do not rub her nose in DH's absence - if she visits us what should we do, act like we are not a happy family - DH, DS and me - so that she does not feel hard done by? Neither do we assume that her mum is wrong and we are right. If I have made a comparison with DS it was just to illustrate a point - I did not say that DS behaviour is bmore favourable than DSD at any point in my post.

DH gets the same treatment as I do and also feels like I do about it. I think because he does not have any kind of rapport with his ex it is difficult for him to know how to approach DSD. That unfortunately will not change.

Just on personality traits, and of course this might not apply generally, but just to say - my ds who is so passive is also not at all adaptable. You would think someone who was passive would be equally compliant in any circumstances, but it's not so. He takes ages to come to terms with any new situation, and while he's in a new situation he's usually yearning for the situation he's just left.

Which explains to me, I think, DSD's homesickness (which is what that diary was about) - some people just find it difficult to go from one situation to another, which is very hard to comprehend for adaptable people. I can really see her yearning for her kittens - partly because any 11yo would, but also because that's how ds would be.

You sound like such a lovely stepmother. Please don't give up on her, but please at the same time tell yourself that it isn't you, it's how she's made, and that eventually eventually she will come to appreciate you. And then I think it will all be worth it. And have some wine now

It doesn't sound like you are doing anything wrong, but I do think you are unnecessarily feeling a bit defeated! Although I should imagine you feel like this at the end of all your DSD's visits, and then have to steel yourself for the next time...

It also doesn't sound from what you have described as though your DSD is behaving in an abnormal way, given the circumstances. Or are you concerned that she may have mild special needs? (ie are you genuinely concerned that she can't really help her behaviour, or that it tips over into being abnormally manipulative and needs professional attention, or are you just frustrated that she is difficult to live with for a few days a month?).

I know I certainly wouldn't have appreciated, at 11, having to leave my local friends and family, and creature comforts, every school holiday for a few days, to spend time with a father I loved but didn't know very well and a stepmother who was well meaning, but, obviously, wasn't my mother, so unlikely ever to love me warts and all. I would particularly dislike this if surrounded by a generally poisonous family atmosphere where some members of the family were so angry with my father that they wouldn't even speak to him. I would feel very confused and angry, not really knowing how I was supposed to behave or who I was supposed to express approval or disapproval of, and would be hypersensitive to even the slightest hint of disapproval or criticism. And however patient you try to be, there is no way you will have been able to completely conceal your feelings - that you don't really believe she has much wrong with her eyesight, don't believe she has genuine food allergies, and don't believe she has problems with her breathing, along with not believing that she could possibly be that incapable of making a few decisions for herself. And if she is aware that you are dubious about these things, then who is she supposed to think you are feeling critical of - her mother, or her, presumably?

In other words, whether you are right or wrong that she seems to think there is an awful lot more physically wrong with her than is actually the case, you don't really see her often enough to be in a very good position to cast judgment, meaning that if you do, you will not be thanked for it, even if everything you do is intended to be in her best interests.

ps I think Bink puts it very well... Don't give up and don't think you are doing anything wrong - your DSD is still a confused little girl who hopefully one day will appreciate the effort her stepmother put in. Much better than giving up on her and letting contact cease, even if it is very difficult and occasionally very upsetting for all concerned. You are doing the right thing to make the effort that you do.

You sound like a great stepmum. I understand why you feel like giving up though.

I'd like to add a different view.

I had a stepmum from aged 7 and then a 1/2 sister when I was aged 11 and a 1/2 brother when I was aged 12.5.

I secretly loved going to their house for a bit of normality... I rarely stayed but when I did i never had a room of my own etc.

To the point- I felt so guilty about enjoying myself (my mother never remarried and remained quite upset by whole thing and other things that happened before that) that I could never really show how i felt about it as my mum needed to be my priority for everything.

GOod luck and keep going- I know its thankless though.

I used to travel to youth orchestra rehearsals into the centre of a big city every Saturday by train, on my own, at the age of 11. I was probably unusually independent though. 11 is not too young to do things without being asked.

Thanks for all your comments. It does feel like a thankless task. But I do feel encouraged by your comments. I do feel that as rabbitstew suggests the general atmosphere for DSD at her own home whilst caring and loving, she is surrounded by people in her family, including DH's mum and sisters who are angry with DH, so for her it is just black and white, ie, mums side = good, dad's side = bad. My hope is that puberty and maturity will even this out a bit more realistically. One can only hope!