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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Advice please - defiant toddler (yes another one)

19 replies

AddictedtoCrunchies · 30/12/2010 09:40

I'm looking for some advice please or actually more of a WWYD?

DS is 2.11 (3 next month) and in the last few weeks has become very defiant to me. I know this is normal as he's testing boundaries etc however I'm not sure I'm dealing with it in the right way and could do with some advice.

For example, if I ask him to do something he will shout 'No' and stamp his foot. If I ask again he will repeat and add a raspberry in my face. This isn't all of the time - just sometimes. Perhaps three incidents yesterday?

At the moment, I'm trying to talk to him to explain why I'm asking and that it isn't nice to spit at mummy etc but I wondered what the rest of you do. I've also re-introduced the 'naughty box' where one of his favourite cars goes if it happens. That works as he's obsessed with his car especially the new ones.

So, what would you do? It's not a massive problem to me at the moment but I'd quite like to nip it..

**NB: I always said no child of mine would EVER be defiant and I wouldn't stand for it etc however I clearly forgot to tell him that. So if your child is perfect and never answers you back I'm really pleased for you but please don't come and tell me what a shit mother I am. I'm looking for advice...

OP posts:

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Adair · 30/12/2010 09:48

Walk away. Give as little attention as possible.Try not to turn it into a big fight/battle.

Calm 'don't speak to me like that. You need to xyz (because ...)' then walk away for a bit. You might find that he gets on with it - then you say calmly again 'brilliant, ds, you have done xyz. Great.'

If he doesn't, then 'ds, if you don't do xyz then abc will happen'. Walk away again. Then either praise as above or follow through with consequence.

Try to ignore the raspberries etc as much as you can... And try to remember as you said, it's not the same as a 11year old doing it to you (though it gets my blood pressure rising too )

DreamTeamGirl · 30/12/2010 15:13

I would agree with Adair

Really calm (and boy do I know hard that is!!) 'Please do not speak to me that way' or 'I will NOT be spoken to in that way' and walk away until he calms down and is well behaved again
I cant recall if almost 3 is too young for apologies is it?

Also, I know it is SO obvious, but try not giving questions that can be answerd with a no, more like things like
'Do you want to put your coat on now, or after we have found your gloves?' where both outcomes are fine.

Adair · 30/12/2010 15:21

Yes, choices with two acceptable answers, 'do you want to put coat on now, or after we have found your gloves?' - though ds (2.5) says 'nothing'

DreamTeamGirl · 30/12/2010 15:24

LMAO, yeah, thats when I go into 'well if you cant decide I shall decide for you' mode

and he HATED that, so I only had to do it 2 or 3 times.
Control freak my boy (just like his mum...)

Adair · 30/12/2010 15:34

It does mostly work, to be fair! And always on dd, she was/is far more gullible.

(I just repeat the question/choices and/or do it for him! He is just being cheeky anyway)

Hannispan · 30/12/2010 16:50

Can I ask a related question? I'm having exactly the same with my 2 year DD1 and my trouble is i can never think of what to 'threaten with'. What exactly does happen if she doesn't comply? Leaving the house obviously its 'if you do not put on your coat then we will not be going to the playground on the way to the shops' but out and about? We were at a soft play centre today and it took 5 attempts to coax her close enough to grab as i just couldn't think of any consequence of her not coming :-) What works? Thanks

Adair · 30/12/2010 19:44

If you don't put on your coat, I will do it for you.

Tbh with 2 year old, I'd do distraction/playful parenting first and foremost! So put on coat while going ooh look is that a spider in your pocket (tickle tickle)...

div22c · 31/12/2010 11:26

Similar problems here. My daughter will be 3 in March. She has been going to naughty corner since she was 2, with mixed success. These days I put her in her cot when she's naughty (she's quite scared of falling and never tries to climb out) - earlier she used to apologise in a minute, nowadays she just sits/ lies there, even if i go back and try to talk to her, she just shouts a defiant 'NO' back at me.
Worst is when I go to pick her up at the nursery - she keeps running away from me, making me run after her. It takes ages to get her to wear her coat and leave. Other parents have come and gone, I am still there struggling with her. All the nursery staff stand watching, obviously desperate for us to leave so they can wind up. I try and make it a game, offer her incentives ('Daddy waiting for you', 'we'll go and play/ make a cake...'), scold her, threaten her with naughty corner..nothing works!
Sorry for the long rant, but really need help on the nursery collection bit.

Adair · 31/12/2010 11:44

Nursery collection: I'd just physically pick her up and then do the OOOH LOOK!!!! and distract her with whatever I could see and then chat about it happily til she stopped stropping probably.

I am not sure I'd bother with naughty corner tbh. You want her to learn what TO do in situations. Problem with naughty corner etc is it becomes about that and not what the original problem was.

div22c · 31/12/2010 11:58

Yeah I do grab her physically - when I manage to reach her ...she's quite fast and squirmy, and squeezes herself into tiny spaces where I can't grab her without hurting her.
Re naughty corner, I understand what you are saying, and always try and focus on the issue at hand, and not the naughty corner exercise itself. She's quite smart, as are most toddlers, and the threat of naughty corner usually works.

DreamTeamGirl · 31/12/2010 12:17

hi Div22c
I had that a lot too. Drove me mad and I never did get a full solution, and still have the problem now at after school club [grr]

My main approach was just to say 'ok' and start to leave without him, then he would belt after me

The best days were always those when I could kind of sweep in, put his coat on before he noticed and grab his hand talking all the time and sweep him out before he realised

Re getting the coat on tho, I had the bedtime battle really bad until a ex-HV who shared my office pointed out the obvious

I had battled him for nigh on 45 mins to get into PJs and was so upset and worn down by it when she said

'So dont do it. Whats the worst that could happen?'

It was a bloody well made point. The next night he ramped up for the battle, and I said. 'Ok then' and sat down and started to read his story to him with him naked. About 2 or 3 pages in he said 'mummy I am cold, can I have my pjs on please?'
RESULT!!!!

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 31/12/2010 15:53

DS2 now 3 is similar so I turn lots of things into games and races. Who can put their coat on fastest game etc. Small kids love to win. If he won't put his coat on then he goes out without it (I carry it so after 10 seconds when he realises its freezing he puts it on). If he won't come with me I say bye and head off without him, he follows behind pretty quickly. Like DreamTeamGirl if my DS won't put pyjamas on then they go to bed without get put to bed sometimes still in their clothes, not in an angry way but in a very matter of fact way i.e. you are going to bed now so if you don't put your pyjamas on I will put you to bed as you are.

Div22c it sounds like you DD has turned you struggling to catch her to leave into a game. Is there anyway you can change the game so she wins by leaving the building rather than "winning" by running away from you e.g. she has to try and sneak out past you whilst you pretend not to notice etc.

Also pick your battles decide if this is one where you really need to make a point or if you can let it go. I might ignore a toddler who won't pick something up but if they ran off in the park and wouldn't come back when I called them after being warned that we would leave the park if they did it again - I would (and did carry) out my threat and march them straight out of the park (because its a safety issue).

div22c · 03/01/2011 14:01

Sorry ladies, not been back here last couple of days...so first of all a very happy new year to you!

I agree with both of you, I do try and use the 'dont do it' approach / pick my battles when the situation warrants - I probably need to try harder in other situations. But I cant take her out in the freezing cold without a coat, and I cant leave her in the nursery.

Saying 'ok I am leaving' doesnt work, she stays put, and I lose face even more because then I have to come back for her.

I have tried making it into a competitive game, saying 'ok then shall I take Hannah (her carer) home' and all I get is a disinterested 'ok then'.

I like your suggestion though Chazs, will have to think up something...am at a creative standstill at the moment, though!

DreamTeamGirl · 03/01/2011 21:52

Hi again Div22c
You say you cant not put her coat on, but in all honesty its as my old HV friend said 'whats the worst that could happen?'

eg. You take her out with no coat into very cold weather and within a minute or two she asks for her coat, or you offer it. She might get uncomfortable, but it wont kill her, and it might make her realise that you dont ask her to do it for fun.
Course only you know your DD well enough to know if that will work, but it did for me.

div22c · 05/01/2011 15:44

I did think to try it once DTGirl, when I grabbed her and started to walk out the door with her. But then her carer from the nursery said 'but it's really cold out, you know'...she probably meant it in a nice way but i felt like the cruellest mum in the world, and then proceeded to go though the 'coat drama' again.
Sigghhh thanks ladies, some really good suggestions here. Will see if I can make it a game in which she WANTS to get outside as fast as she can.
If I have any success, will surely report back!

keepmumshesnotsodumb · 05/01/2011 15:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bondgirl77 · 05/01/2011 19:32

Div22c I have to say when this happened with my DS I did incentives with chocolate buttons. I got a mini pack ready in my pocket walked in and immediately took one out and said if you leave the room nicely you will get this. He got another for putting his coat on nicely and one more for getting into his car seat. I only needed to do this for a couple of weeks to get him out of the habit and soon enough we were down to one button for the whole lot and then none at all just lots of praise. Like you I had tried all the techniques and a mumsnetter on the nursery boards suggested this. It is hideous stage though my complete sympathies.

bluecheesefiend · 05/01/2011 19:48

I must say I think the carer from the nursery must have been a little bit dense to have said that - if she sees what's going on, sees you struggle every day, surely it's obvious that "its really cold out", and actually that's the point that you're trying to make to DD???

I'd like to think, had I been in your shoes, that I'd have said "yes it is, and if DD doesn't wear her coat she's going to freeze!" and just strolled on out. But the fact is I only ever think of the witty responses in hindsight and almost definitely would have felt the same way you did! Nevertheless, the carer was totally blind to the situation and utterly unhelpful and you should not be put off from trying that tactic again.

div22c · 05/01/2011 22:34

keepmum (like your name by the way!) - I did start the book, and I found the 'give 2 options' technique extremely effective. also accepting the child's feelings. afraid I never did get beyond the first handful of pages...maybe I should give it another shot now.
choc buttons, bondgirl, now there's an idea. it worked beautifully for me during potty training. maybe i can adapt it here.
thanks for the support bluecheese, i felt quite awful at the time, but later thought in a way that showed that she cared about my daughter. but i agree, i should definitely try again.

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