very worried about my daughter.

[hellymelly]

My dd has just turend six.She was having big problems in year one,deeply unhappy and increasingly anxious,although for a long time she had been happy in school.In the end her anxiety got so extreme that we removed her from school (three weeks ago) and intend to home-ed for a while at least.
She seemed to get worse initially when she left school,she had developed a nervous tic,and that got worse,along with repeating a little worried phrase.She has been getting generally very hyper.Then she had a slight improvement,more chatty,more noisy and seemed on an upward trend.She's had blood tests done (no results yet).
But today she was rather worse again,a lot of tics,hyper,unable to keep still at all,worrying about all sorts of small fears (spiders etc)and tbh I am really very worried.Wasn't sure whether to post in health or behaviour even.She really is a changed child,she was always very confident and outgoing,and sunny.Now she is super anxious,hyper,unable to answer direct questions or to make decisions.She is more fearful and not herself at all.
She is sleeping fine and eating,although she looks thinner (she is very thin anyway and has grown).
She is an extremely bright child,and she is still funny,and loving,but just very different.I don't know what to think or how to proceed now.

Ok I read the National Austistic Society's description of Aspergers,but it didn't resonate with me,so I don't think that is the problem.She is strong on empathy,and communication,she was good at emotional literacy (e.g. explaining one day when I asked her why she was being rather angry and not very nice to me,that "I'm not angry with you Mama,I'm angry with (the TA)but i can't be angry with her and i can be angry with you".)
she is good socially if she is in a small group of children or one on one,its the large group of others her age she seems to struggle with.She is good at talking to adults and older children.She is also not at all clumsy,very dextrous and agile,good at gymnastics.She is very close to her little sister and they play lots of dressing up imagination type games.She is a little boffin in some ways,DH is a biologist and she's interested in animals and in bones and fossils,things like that,but not in an overly obsessive way I don't think.The ED psych said that she was years ahead in her reasoning,her moral awareness,and in things like loyalty,empathy etc. She is an un usual child and always has been,but I don't think she has Aspergers,at least i can't see any reason to think so at the moment.

If she is ticcing have you looked at Tourettes at all?

Aspergers in girls can be missed/coped with until 7 ish iirc.

Have looked at Tourettes,yes but am hoping that it is the more common transient tic rather than full blown Tourettes. I really don't feel she has Aspergers.my Godson is Autistic so I have some experience of ASD although at the other end of the scale,and nothing about dd has suggested that to me at all.She has no social or communication issues other than with her class at school,and with those children she plays well with them in small groups,its just the classroom setting she is unhappy with,and that is really only since September and the start of year one,new teacher etc.She has generally been a really sociable,friendly and easy to like child and not a loner.No worries at all until the last couple of months ,and I think if it was Aspergers iwould have had concerns before now.

Pixie-hello,I remember you from other threads.That is interesting and might be an issue.The school have talked about her as gifted,and she is a perfectionist and gets upset or cross if she feels she hasn't done something well enough.Neither we nor the school have pushed her though,as here they do "learning through play"until they are seven so its all quite gentle.She is a very kind child and has certainly found the casual mean-ness that can happen in school a bit of a shock.Possibly while she was still part time she was able to deal with it better (she only started full time around the time all this started).Also her class was mainly boys and she prefers to play with girls.The Ed-psych said that she was socially years ahead of other five year olds,and that chatting to her was more like being with an adult friend,and yet she is quite an innocent and sheltered little girl (won't watch Disney films etc as she gets too scared or upset,has never seen the news or anything like that)I think she was probably being picked on a bit as her confidence has completely plummeted,I'm just worried at how much of a difference all this has made,as she was until recently really confident,outgoing,very friendly and chatty and she is now worried about everything,unsure of herself and of other people,quieter (although that is improving)and generally very anxious and agitated.What is rainbow?

Hi again, Helly, she does sound v bright, beyond her peers socially in many ways & very sensitive. I know you said she got hysterical at the build up to going to school - was she any better once there or still v distressed? Is she enjoying the HEdding?

I will look and see if we have rainbows here as i think she would love that,and the tip about things with no right answer is very helpful.
Kanga,she was slightly better once there,she would try and pull herself together when I had to leave which was pitiful to see tbh.She was ok when getting on with her work,but often went into a complete panic,full on tears etc if there was a big change (the bigger girls not around to be with her at lunch,older class mixed with hers etc)She used to be very flexible and good at dealing with changes,but it seemed recently in school that she was on such a knife edge that any change really frightened her.At times she was happy and fine,but the overall difference in her at home as well as at school (she was spending all weekend worrying about going in on Monday and Mondays were really terrible)was so great that we had to remove her.I suppose I hoped she would bounce back really quickly but she is still so unlike herself.
We haven't done any home-ed yet as we removed her so close to the end of term that I've just left her have it as extra holiday and time to recover.We will start hopefully in the new year.It is extra tricky as the school is a Welsh speaking one,and we don't speak Welsh at home much,so we will need to really make a massive effort (tutors etc) to keep her Welsh up for if/when she goes back to school.

It never occurred to my parents to take me out of school but I recognise the Sunday anxiety build-up to Monday dread and upset on the way to school.

Guessing, if she is like me, that learning through free play alongside children who aren't as mature but who can be 'assertive' (which can feel threatening, disordered and unsupervised), group work at tables and boisterous lunchtimes don't suit her? But adult supervised play with a purpose/ directed creativity does? In many ways she sounds more suited to what's now deemed an old-fashioned education, facing front behind a desk, allowing her to focus on the learning - and playing with other children of a similar kindly temperament. In fact it's what many parents pay private ed for! The learning does get more formalised and the day more overtly ordered at the upper end of primary and certainly at secondary, although that still leaves the social side to be negotiated.

There is a lot a school can do to make children feel more at ease, which I can post/PM you if you'd like, only because you mentioned the possibility of returning to school in the future/might inform HE.

My dd (now 14) very much like this. Thought it was Tourettes for a long time.
She was diagnosed with OCD when she was 11, and has had CBt which has helped.
She had cranial osteopathy but I don't think it did much,

Yes Kangaroocaught,that does sound like her,although I haven't seen her at school,the more unstructured times were the ones that she really got stressed about,especially lunchtimes when there were no teachers about and she might get told different things by different people (I had said she didn't have to eat all her lunch if she didn't want to,but the lunchtime helpers-trying to be nice-tend to try and persuaude the children to eat up their lunch and so Dd got very worried about that as she didn't know who to believe.Her head told her she didn't have to eat it all,and then the next day she went in and a helper told her to finish her sandwiches,and she got really anxious (she doesn't ever eat a huge amount in one go).She didn't like the playground either, she got frightened about the boys playing shooting games etc.This makes her sound so timid and wimpy but she was always very boisterous and outgoing,naturally very funny and witty.she is probably over-responsible though.I am hoping she will go back to school at some point,for the social links as much as the experience.the school offered for her to go up a year but i didn't want her to do that really and she was against it too.Please do pm me,or post here as your info has been so helpful i am really grateful.
In your own experience,what helped you at the time, and what things in school upset you the most? (if you can remember!!)
deaddei I do worry about OCD,at the moment though she isn't very ritualistic.Lots of children seem to go through a slight OCD type phase, my best friend had to touch doorways,and another put food in her hair at every meal (!)but it went away at puperty,is your DD ok now?

She has ups and downs- generally controls it, but hates disruption to routine- as soon as holidays start, she finds it hard.
She has always been odd- but has good friends now, and once she was diagnosed, it was a huge relief.

Ok, for if/when she's in school:

She sounds certainly mature enough to have a laminated weekly timetable, one for home and one for the wall near her table at school, so she can see the routine and look forward to the lessons she does enjoy and have school strategies in place for the times that cause her most stress e.g.something very directed, put on her timetable, during the free-play and lunchtimes (e.g reading and helping in the library, craft-work at a supervised table, helping the youngsters) and later, when reintroduced, a time-out card that she can use at playtime/free-play where she can go to cosy corner/library/whatever the school uses). This is all about enabling inclusion. It means too, that changes to routine can be indicated ahead of time and that she can have a bit of encouragement/adult nearby for smiling reassurance. Reward too the times where she does manage free play/playtime.

She should have a listening adult mentor/advocate who she can talk to everyday for 5 mins and who can tweak arrangements as necessary.

Adjust seating for her to mimic more formalised learning (ie single table facing front) & ensure she's sat next to someone kindly/shy - good positions are to near a window or by the wall at the rear. Being at the front or sat around a group of tables puts too many people at her back.

Instructions to the lunchtime supervisors/playtime supervisors re best approach & certainly no criticism or telling off (I doubt very much she does do anything that warrants telling off)

Confidence building activities that get her to know the staff - eg. helping the librarian, the school secretary, so it becomes 'her' community of approachable adults.

Role playing exchanges with you that cause her difficulty (for when she can articulate) so she knows what to do in a certain set of circs (my older dc finds this one v helpful)

There are bound to be other things specific to your dd and the school and they seem such little things but put together they make such big difference and actually are not too unwieldy for a school to implement, especially if the class-teacher/mentor has oversight. Imo is doesn't need a specialist to put things like this in place, you just need to be a teacher attuned to their needs, frankly.

I am going to print that out-thank you,that's so clear.Actually some of the things are also waht the Ed- psych suggested (warning her in advance of changes and letting her know how the day would progress,having an adult mentor etc)but by the time we'd got to the point of implementing them dd was in such a terrible state (hysterical every morning,counting the days off to the weekend,quiet and angry at home,tic very noticable) that we took her out at that point.The confidence building ideas you've suggested are just the kind of thing she would really enjoy and relish,she likes to help,either adults or caring for smaller children,and was good at nurturing any new reception children who needed it.
just reading that has made me feel more positive actually.We'be had months of this sad and worried little girl,in tears all the time,at the same time as my mother had a bad fall and my parents situation has been really worrying,so I myself am a bit stuck in feeling worried and finding it all stressful and hard to be positive,so just seeing in black and white things that I can see would help her is great.I think we will home-ed until next September,and then re-assess if she seems ready or willing to try again.Big thankyou Kanga

Should have added,that her new teacher,although perfectly nice and kind,didn't seem to "get" her at all,whereas her reception teacher really loved her and was good at chatting things through with her,and noticing if she looked worried.The new teacher would tell her she was "a big girl now" and not to cry,whereas the previous one (truly a saint among women actually)would gently give her activities that kept her interested.I think that had a big impact on dd,because she did like her new teacher,but I think she was aware that the teacher didn't understand her,and that made her more worried.

No thanks required, she sounds a really lovely little girl. And what you say is very true, Hellymelly, a class-teacher is so important to the overall ethos & dd needs nurturing and gentle encouragement as well as academic challenge and sounds as if she wasn't getting some aspects of that.

Do you know what next year's teacher is like?

I have only met the next year teacher very briefly,but she looked smiley and nice.My friend has two girls in that class at the moment so I'm going to ask her what she thinks of the teacher.Our head has been great,and I took a real liking to the Ed-psych who is a very thoughtful and intelligent woman,and who is giving us ongoing support.Thanks for the kind words.DD really is a lovely child,she looks like a little fairy,tall and thin with huge green eyes,and she has been such a delight,so much fun,and then with all the stress I'd slightly forgotten that and was thinking of her all the time in terms of how worried we were about her.Then the Ed psych said how much she'd enjoyed her company and what a lovely little girl she is and I burst into tears,because I'd let go of that slightly and was stuck in stressing about her all the time.