WTF is with my 3 year old just now?

[stickersarecurrency]

He's doing my nut. Always been a rotten sleeper. Recently been waking several times in the evening complaining of bad dreams or generally rambling about being scared or not being able to explain what's wrong. Always tearful, wakes howling. But settles down again easily. Only settles for the night once I'm in bed and he's joined me.

DD is 3 months and near impossible to settle in the evenings. When DP's working I'm up and down like a yoyo and it's disturbing her too. That's him up again, third time tonight!

Night terrors aren't unusual.
Does he have a nightlight?

Thank you ... in answer to your question, yes he does.

I don't think it's night terrors - I thought that was when they were still asleep and are fairly inconsolable? He's very definitely awake, mournful howling, and gives a variety of reasons, often citing a dream or whatever. But sometimes he'll do this two or three times within half an hour so it's surely not a dream. I asked if something was bothering him last time I went up and he said he wants me to go in my bed (ie so he can join me). It's like he's becoming less willing to sleep alone as he gets older. Which is maddening because for years now he's been brilliant at settling himself to sleep in the evening - bath, story, cuddle, lights out, bye bye. He's just incapable of transferring this skill to night wakings (and now it seems he's incapable of actually staying asleep for more than an hour or two after going to bed).

[bangs head off wall]
(we so need that emoticon)

My DD is experiencing similar 'unsettled' nights.

I have to say that silent return (after warning) works for us.

Her door stays open so she can hear us pottering around, but if we start doing the dance of drink/wee/cuddles etc it just never stops.

We just say it's nightime now, so no more talking please. She has a sleep clock, so we can say 'lamb's asleep now', so stay in your bed. We never say 'go to sleep'.

She has sometimes talked about being scared/monsters and will wail a bit, but I think if we're consistent and re-assure her that we're close, then it doesn't become too traumatic for any of us.

OK, so you're just going in and saying "time to sleep" or whatever and then leaving again?

We probably enter into discussion too much.

I've got 7 days of doing bedtime on my own coming up (at least at the moment DP's not leaving until after DS is in bed) so I could try that in the evenings and see. It's hard because I feel like he's having a tough time recently with a new baby, illness and DP working mad hours having previously been home much of the time. But it isn't good for him to lose so much sleep.

Thanks for the ideas :)

Yes - pretty much.

'it's night-time now so no more talking please'

All a bit super-nanny, but we find questions/discussions just never end.

She got up at 5.30am last week and was insistent that we put her boots downstairs. If I had started to say 'ok when we get up' she's say 'let's get up now'. Instead I just said 'it's still night-time, back to bed please' and led her by the hand. She's tending to wake early needing a wee but without the sleep clock we're lost as she doesn't know what 60 more minutes is. With the sleep clock, we can say lamb's asleep so it's still night time.

I'm sure there are some mornings when she is just WATCHING the flaming lamb as she'll suddenly shreik with delight when it switches from night to day, and coming running in. The thing with dark evenings/mornings mean night/day get blurred.

The distinction in our house is that nothing happens after bed-time (barring illness). No talking/snacks/drinks/removal of boots...

I have the infernal rabbit clock but when we tried it DS pretty much laughed in our faces. He fiddles with the dials until the ears pop up and then voila it's wakey time. Gah.

Maybe I'll try again, incentivised with stickers. Given he hasn't slept more than 4 hours without waking since the summertime, and he hasn't slept through for over a year, I'll try anything. The newborn's less trouble (once I get the little blighter to sleep!).

OMG He's off AGAIN!

Blimey - that's really tough. Especially with a younger one.

The clock we have is globetrotter

I did LOADS of research about the wretched things the bunny clocks always had bad reviews for the readon you state. Our clock is well out of her reach!

Just tried telling him it's bedtime and coming away - I can hear him grumbling away. The thing is I can't go to bed now because then he'll just come through and I haven't the energy to be up and down all night.

I'm sorry, I was misleading - the 4 hours is since being put to bed - he'll (sometimes) sleep longer than 4 hours but only once he's come into our bed.

HV says she'll help us sort it out but not for another few months (cos of new baby etc).

Fuck it, he's wandering around upstairs now. I'm packing in and going to bed (and probably end up giving him a row in the process).

I'm doing something wrong, evidently, but haven't a clue what to do to fix it aaaaaargh.

Misleading or not, it still sounds really hard!

Perhaps tomorrow talk about sleeping in his big bed (maybe get new exciting bed sheets??) and go for it with rewards. Everytime he gets up and comes into you/gets up just keep putting him back in his own bed?

You must be shattered. Really have my sympathy.

Ok I'm camping out down here for a bit cos I think he might be going to sleep this time. We need to do proper rapid return with a bell tied to our door etc but we've always felt the time wasn't right. And we're SO tired. But I think we'll have to tough it out sooner rather than later. Might phone HV on Monday and get her on board, I'll take all the help I can get.

Ok I'm camping out down here for a bit cos I think he might be going to sleep this time. We need to do proper rapid return with a bell tied to our door etc but we've always felt the time wasn't right. And we're SO tired. But I think we'll have to tough it out sooner rather than later. Might phone HV on Monday and get her on board, I'll take all the help I can get.

It sounds like it's going to be tough no matter when you tackle it. We had nights of terror when moving DD to her bed (she learnt how to climb out of her cot).

We used a stairgate on her door in the end. It's all about attention for her. For various reasons, co-sleeping was never an option in our house, so we've tried to be consistent.

Sorry!

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. I'm so done in but a whinge has made me feel better, and we probably do need to be more consistently boring. Just hard when he's weeping every single time, having gone to sleep perfectly happily!

You'll probably hate my solution but I'll post anyway.

My DS1 had just turned 3 when his wee brother was born and he went from going to bed happily to wanting to be in with me all the time. So I somehow managed to squish his toddler bed in next to my bed and he was happy with that. Wouldn't get up even when I wasn't in bed yet as he knew I would be coming up at some point and we'd be sharing a room. Often he'd sleep in my bed and I'd just roll him into his when I wanted to sleep.

Went back to his own room just after he turned 4.

We've thought about this - we've a cotbed sidecar arrangement just now, supposedly for DD. But we're going to need that set up as a cot for her in a couple of months so don't want to put DS in there and have to take it away IYSWIM. But good idea nonetheless!

Posting from phone. Crept to bed, lights out, closed my eyes ... Door opens and DS creeps in, shuts door, gets into bed, mumbles "I'm really sorry, mum" and is now snoring. I should have put him back. I'm really too soft, I know that's the problem, but he's such a darling!

"He's very definitely awake, mournful howling, and gives a variety of reasons, often citing a dream or whatever. But sometimes he'll do this two or three times within half an hour so it's surely not a dream. "

This bit inparticular sounds just like DS (he's 3yo as well). he seems to be awake, and seems to settle, and then 20 mins later will be wailing about the same thing again.

The only thing that seems to work with him is making him wake up properly, which is difficult, and seems cruel at the time, but it works. Things like making him walk to Daddy for a cuddle, brushing his teeth, having a drink of cold water..

It definitely helped him to have a nightlight in his room (we have the little ikea one) and having a light on outside his door. He likes hearing us pottering around the house, so his door is left open (until he's well asleep anyway)

hth

stickers.

How's tonight going?

Evening! So far so good, thanks, but the night is young (and DD is being a PITA!) :)

Big bump.

DS1, also 3, constantly got into our bed and wore us out (indeed, am now on pain meds for back pain caused by three months squirming with his head on my chest). He also has some sort of semi-dream thing, kept moaning about the woman in the curtains or the man in the roof that made his ears hurt (he gets earache a lot).

We now leave the door wide open, night light and another light on after his story, when he's settling, then turn them off and close the door slightly (not shut but narrowly ajar) once he's asleeo. He's now back to coming in about 6.30 for a cuddle, then up with his brother at 7.

But he might just be knackered in the cold weather...