5 month old screaming when put down - driving me demented!

[gaelicsheep]

Firstly, sorry for the stream of consciousness that follows. I have a very short window before putting dinner on. I'll be back to check on thread later this evening.

For 5 whole months, almost everything I do has been accompanied by the raucous high pitched screaming of a hysterical baby. If someone is around to hold her/give her undivided attention then she is lovely, if not then she turns into the baby from hell.

Today I ended up getting my DS's and my lunch, eating my lunch whilst chopping and cooking some vegetables, all while breastfeeding DD in the wrap. She was carried around all morning, slept quite happily etc. etc.. The second she was put down so I could get some washing out of the machine and hang it up she started screaming. And screaming. And screaming. She will not stop until picked up again. Being in the same room isn't enough, and it's exhausting.

I am having to carry her/cuddle her all day and I am currently co-sleeping with her at night. She is waking to feed 3 or 4 times in the night. I need suggestions please. How can I get her out of this need for constant physical contact 24/7? I cannot cope with this any more. My DS is witnessing his mum turning into a shouting, crying nervous wreck.

To top it off I am currently away from home staying with my parents, without DH. My parents are doing what they can but the nights are down to me and I am totally totally exhausted. I don't know how we have got to where we are and I don't know what to do.

And it is not fair on DS to leave DD crying in her cot in the evening. His room is next door and she keeps him awake.

Every instinct tells me I need to be minimising her stress levels not increasing them. Am I wrong? I am terrified I will create a neurotic child/adult.

Well call me barbaric but I did this at 6 weeks . My child is not neurotic! In fact she is very advanced and is doing really well, sociable at school etc.

I have to say that it is hard with dc2, however, its even harder if you have to do it at 2 when they escape from the bed! At least this way it is quick and painless. As I said do naps first, then when that is done and sorted then move to evenings. Children who are not rested do not learn as well as others who are.

Thanks, but I'm convinced that isn't the right approach for my very stressed out little girl. Horses for courses I guess.

Anyone else had a baby like this? I've left a message for my HV to phone me for a chat.

OP, can I ask what your view would be to using a dummy? My ds is 6 weeks and really needs his. I am convinced his sleeping would be crap without them. I actually use mam ones age 6 months and up, because the ones for his age group he couldn't hold them in his mouth long enough to get any comfort. I'll probably get flamed for it, and I'm probably making a rod for my own back, but you know what? If it gets me some peace, then hand me that bloody rod!

Fisher price swing - its the only thing that kept me from throwing DS2 out the window going insane! it was 10-15 min respite I got from carrying him around, he also slept in it on occasions

gaelicsheep Please let me tell you about my DS2. He was just how you describe your DD to be. I was very anxious in pregnancy and am a worry wort in general. He would not let me put him down at all - wanted to be carried ieverywhere otherwise he would scream I bought bouncy chairs, swings and a jumperoo but still he would scream and scream. He slept for 20 mins here and there. I took him to GP and HV - no one could help. I muddled through - i
had a 17mth age gap between him and DS1 so looking back I was frantic and nuts. But slowly he improved at 6mths when he could sit up on his own - we regressed at 8 mths with severe separation anxiety which improved a bit at 10mths with crawling. The sleep improved a lot a 8 mths and continued to do so. He is now 18mths and real Mummy's or Daddy's boy and he is a bit of an anxious child that needs some reassurance - he can be clingy at time. But he is a lovely little boy now, talking and getting on really well. He sleeps through the night now and has 2 hr afternoon nap. I think some babies take longer to settle into the world. I know that this is no help right now but things will improve. I hope this helps a little - i feel your pain and frustration.

I don't think you can get a referral it will all have to be done privately - sorry!!!! The practioner I used operates from Windsor and a couple of other places.

Gina Ford will not work her (my other 2 littlies and to an extent my eldest were GF babies) she can't sleep/relax because her adrenalin levels are probably through the roof. My dd also only slept 7 hours out of 24 - I think she just collapsed through sheer exhaustion around 11pm at night thru til about 6am - she was my 3rd baby!!!!

My screamy dd didn't grow up anxious she just used to wake 3-4 times per night and ask if it was morning yet - arghhhhhhhh

My screaming DS is a really laid back 7 year old - naughty yes, but extremely resilient and rarely gets really upset. He has a very strong character. I don't think my pregnancy made him scream. I never let him cry it out till he was over a year and I'd tried everything and really felt we were having a battle of wills. DD was a screamer but not as bad as DS. Didn't let her cry it out either till over a year. Just couldn't do it. DD was easier than DS but I was much more stressed when pregnant with DD as grieving the death of my mother. So I don't think you should worry too much about that.

That said, I'd try anything - cranial osteopath worked a bit for my 2, wasn't magic but I have heard 'magical' reports from others.

My DS2 sounds exactly like your DD and he's also 5mths old (6mths next wk). I wasnt particularly anxious or stressed during my pregnancy but he screams as well the second he is left on his own until someone picks him up.
My DS1 was quite independent and would happily entertain himself while i got on with stuff around the house but my DS2 has a constant need for physical contact and i literally have him held in my arms or in a wrap all day. I have also tries swings and rockers but nothing worked. He even cries when strapped in his car seat and just goes on and on.
Tiring and stressful as it is, i personally believe all kids are different and i feel that once they start crawling and are able to move themselves to explore the world around them things will get better.

gaelic sorry you are going through this. my dd1 screamed almost constantly during the day for the 1st 6 months (although did sleep at night). i thought at the time she might have silent reflux maybe. it was really horrendous and noone understood and got a lot of - that's what babies do - kind of comments from people who couldnt understand the extent of it. now with dd2 who cries to what I consider a normal degree but not the constant constant screaming and refusing to be upt down for a second I realise that there was definitely a prob with dd1 in those first months - god knows what, but she did grow out of it and now at 19 months is a little champion, and has been since 6 months. Hang in there, it will get better with time (although i know that doesn't help much right now, sorry).

i know you have been having bf troubles too (as have I with dd2), hope those are on the mend x

Thanks for the lovely reassuring messages. I am feeling a little better about things (HV never phoned back incidentally).

I've been re-reading the Dr Sears website and his description of high needs babies is my DD down to a tee. I have been going with the flow and using the wrap alot more and DD is generally much happier. I'm treating her with kid gloves, picking her up when she asks and I feel much happier that I'm going with my instincts. My parents have finally stopped insisting that I'm "spoiling" her!

I have no problem with dummies as a last resort JazzieJeff. The trouble is that DD doesn't agree! I tried a dummy for the first few weeks out of desperation and occasionally it worked. Then she started refusing it every time. I bought a cherry-type one the other day in the hope she might accept it. Fat chance! She won't have it anywhere near her mouth. It's me or nothing.

I will look into cranial osteopathy as well, but tbh if the answer is to be sympathetic to her needs and be patient then I'm happy with that.

oh dear

some babies simply are high maintainance, as you now know

my friend had 3 really high maintainace children, but once tey could crawl/move it improved radically, so that is something to hold on to .

she can self soothe and be happy IF she is with you

so you either take the pragmatic approach and accept you hold her all the time, or there will be some screaming

5 mths is IMO far FAR too young for controlled crying and too extreme in these circumstances

i would go down the cranial osteopathy route if possible as a start point

agree with whoever talked about a gradual withdrawal so she is used to being near you, not on you...

there can be a link between high stress /cortisol /adrenalin levels in pregnancy and unsettled babies. can be a link. and even if there is one, you cannot undo the stress you were going through. and you can't blame yourself at all.

she would have most likely been like this anyway, there is nothing to gain by saying 'is it what i did?'

cargirl's posts make a lot of sense

I used to think DS was high maintenance Lulu! It is so hard to have the courage of your convictions when everyone - HV, GP, parents, SIL, etc - is telling you that you're wrong and creating the proverbial rod. I have regained my belief in myself and I wish I'd never listened to any of them. I think we'll be OK now - exhausted but OK.

it's not creating a rod , she's a little baby, and she needs more cuddles than average. x

I'm glad the wrap is working and it is good that close contact reassures & comforts her. Unless anyone has had a baby that screams like that day after day for months at a time they really have no idea what it's like trying to cope with it.

My back is shot to bits and I had huge babies (and I'm tiny) so I could never do the sling thing

It took a few years but I have got over it now - went on to have another dc and in part that was to erase the awfulness of sreaming baby - I think I was more scarred by the experience than her tbh.

I wonder about getting her a cuddly toy and keep it with her in the wrap etc - mothercare do some inexpensive ones that are machine washable (buy 2 and take 1 back if she doesn't get attached to it). She may be happier having a comforter with her at all times.

It can take time for the attachment to grow but it is worth it.

Just want to send some sympathy. I came on here to post a similar tale of misery about my own high maintenance 5 month old, and seeing these responses has really helped me. Like you, it's other people who have made me paranoid - mother in law going on about how I give dd too much attention and I need to put her down more and leave her to cry. Of course all her babies and the other grandchild were all placid and amused themselves for hours on end, so it must be me who's doing something wrong. I have started worrying I'm making her too dependent and clingy, so it's good to hear people saying it's just a phase and will get better. My heart goes out to you about the sleeping thing though - dd has been a good sleeper since we started GFing at two weeks (verge of a nervous breakdown point) so my troubles are just while she's awake.

Sounds like you might be in the right track now though so good luck with it x

I came on here today to post almost exactly the same thing as you gaelicsheep.
My 4 month old DD is currently asleep in the sling but has identical behaviour to your DD.
Just today I asked a friend what had I done to make her so clingy but in reality I have not been able to put her down since birth. At first I though all babies were like this but one by one my friends with children confirmed they weren't! I finally began to realise I just had a high maintenance baby ..thank god for my sling and wine :)

I can't remember the last time I changed a nappy/got dressed/had something to eat without DD screaming her head off until she was in my arms again. Even then I have to be jigging or rocking...just holding and sitting is not allowed! On the brightside I've lost all the baby weight from being constantly on the move :)

I have tried her with dummies (six rejected types sat in cupboard gathering dust!), cranial oestepathy sessions, sleep training etc. to no avail. My doctor says its colic but I'm not sure as she can be distracted for a few moments before she suddenly remembers she should be crying again. She does have wind problems but this is kept at bay by pouring infacol down her at every opportunity.

I've ended up co sleeping too as she won't sleep anywhere without me. People tell me just to pop her in her cot and she'll go to sleep after a few minutes crying...er no, could someone tell my DD this. I've tried every method going to get her to sleep in her crib and nothing has worked. Naps are hardwork too...usually in the sling or pram if I'm lucky.

I love my DD but it is very hard and I can't help but think its my fault. I keep smiling and singing through the tears and screams but it does wear me down.

Of course everyone keeps telling me to give her some formula as if I'm poisoning her with my breastmilk. Must be magic stuff if they really think it will transform my DD into a chilled out, cot sleeping, play mat loving baby!

My DD now 3 was soooo similar! I just ended up going with the flow as it were. I carried her almost constantly (Thank goodness for the didymos wrap). We co-slept at night, she slept on me in the day. I even sometimes went to the loo with her strapped to my front. She was left with no-one butme or my DH (Family far away). I was assured by all and sundry I was making a rod etc..she would always cling and needed leaving,letting cry etc.She did have reflux..

I was also stressed in pregnanacy, we had IVF to get her which was stressful and I had a very stressful birth (Over 50 hours in labour ending in emergency C-section)I tried craniel oesteopathy...and ended up feeling really bad as she suggested the IVF and section could have made her stressed......
Anyway, I read DR Sears and felt better...and carried on doing my own thing...

Now she is 3.She happily sleeps in her own room, went to preschool with hardly abackwards glance and not a tear or anything....

My feeling is some children are more insistant on having the closeness of mummy (Or daddy!) and I think it's maybe best to meet that need.....

OP - just had to say, please stop beating yourself up about whether your experiences during pregnancy might have contributed to your daughter's current reactions in some way. There is so much unknown about development it's just not possible to know one way or the other, in my opinion, and in any case the point is - NOBODY IS IN TOTAL CONTROL OF THEIR WORLD. There are billions of people making their own decisions, not to mention completely uncontrollable world variables, that add up to millions of billions of variables that affect the way a human being develops. It sounds like you did the best you could in a tough situation during pregnancy, just as you are now, and that's all your daughter needs or could possibly require of you.

It is part of the way we have evolved as a species that mothers tend to feel guilt about their children - it ensures they keep them alive! - and that babies tend to take and take and take - for exactly the same reason. Some mothers and babies are more like this than others, or become more so at different times in their lives, often at what seem to be the most difficult times! ie when dh is away and work is looming.... i think you are experiencing some of this from both sides at the moment, no wonder you are feeling overwhelmed... hopefully it will even out, they do grow up even tho it feels like forever at this stage.

Thanks again everyone. We'll keep plugging away (quite literally at the moment lol). Dr Sears says no one can understand if they haven't had a baby like this. That is so true! Sometimes I wish I could rewind and start again and just follow my instincts from the word go. Anyhow I think now she's sitting by herself she is becoming happier, and on balance I'm happy to have a baby who knows exactly what she wants and who will hopefully grow into a really interesting, bright and rewarding little girl.

gaelicsheep, good name.
i too thought i was alone with my dd until i read the doctor sears website and reajusted my thinking from 'bloody hard baby' to 'high needs' baby.
i also questioned everything i was doing and all the advice from my g.p or h.v was contradictory to that (from "leave her to cry, it's good for her lungs," to "get her used to sleeping alone as much as possible")

i can't say much more that what has been echoed on here and that which you know yourself - your baby knows what she needs. i have a very similar eight month old, very cuddly, very alert, very demanding. the way i see it is, that if i'm there, i'm available and she needs me, why not pick her up, take her to bed or carry her round ? like you said, it's not forever and i really do believe you'll see her blossom into someone independent, interesting and confident as a result.

waffled on, sorry. no real advice but wanted to amplify all that you've already said because it's quite a rare parental choice and such a good one.

my DD was very much like this for first 4 months or so.... she did have reflux but it definitely wasn't the whole issue... seemed to gradually get better months 4-6.

Over time she would be happy spending a bit longer and longer on playmat/in rocking chair etc, and now can happily amuse herself for 30 mins before getting tetchy-

night time was different matter. We were co-sleeping, feeding thru night with no one getting much sleep. We used PU/PD to help her settle initially in cot at night, and found putting effort into that first bedtime really improved all her night wakings- eg much easier to give quick BF to, and put down after she had settled herself in cot. We started this around 5months old- now 7.5 months old and dare I say it.... sleeping through, 7-7am, in her own room, and DH does all the bath/bedtime bit. We never leave her to cry, and still struggle with naps, but overall, massive improvement.

DD woke me at least 6 or 7 times last night. I can't sleep while feeding her because the latch is never right when we are lying down. It's good enough for no damage, but definitely uncomfortable. We're still smiling though (just).

Sorry for everyone experiencing similar things.