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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

toddler answering back how to cope am at wits end

41 replies

blueberrysorbet · 27/11/2010 11:39

me and dh are having a dreadful time with ds and its been going on for ages. ds is 3.5 and answers back all the time, shouts no i won't, and just seems to take every waking moment as an opportunity to drive me and dh crazy. he wasn't like this til about 2 months ago- but now he is constantly at us.

for example , he will shout get me cornflakes and i say, ask nicely " mummy, please may I.." and he shouts NO, RIGHT NOW. iF i ask him to wait for any reason, he goes berserk, shouting "no, you wait, you skunk" and don;t speak to me like that and is really quite impossible. When I say. ok, in the corner/ sit at the table quietly and think how rude you are, this sparks more abusive shouting from him.

dh either explodes with don;t speak to mummy like that or ignores it. he is working 16 hours a day so contact is short and dh is so tired - it does seem that ds is worse when dh is there. another issue for us.

we have a dd who is 17 months and ds is v nice with her and always has been, i donlt see why suddenly he would feel the need to behave like this.

i cry a lot as i must be doing something wrong, i often end up shouting at ds as the constant back chat as my mum says drives me crazy.

I ask ds why he is like this and he says he doesn;t know, he seems to be influenced a bit by unruly kids at nursery as he talks of their behavior and then how they are punished, ut he gets stickers at nursery for his good behaviour and his teacher says he is great at school.

sorry about the long thread but i don;t know what to do. nothing works or changes. any advice welcome...

OP posts:

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Adair · 28/11/2010 19:08

Showwaddywaddy, my dd didn't tantrum til ooh, about a month ago (she is 4 and a half)...

but by and large, yes, she is/was much more chilled out than ds,and can understand your fears... Ds does the terrible twos thing (ie NO flippin logic and what worked on dd doesn't necessarily work on him so easily.
'Want Daddy',
Daddy has gone to work darling, shall we blow him a kiss? bye bye daddy!'
'NO DADDY WORK NO' cue sobbing for ten minutes til he is eventually distracted . Dd would have said 'ok, daddy come home later, yes?'!)

OP, I agree with the calm 'please ask me nicely' approach and then (nicely) ignoring him til he does. Remind him what you WANT him to do and pick your battles. Ignoring and walking away is just as effective and powerful as a big punishment too. Raising kids is a long-term project, and I think kids get very experimental about their independence and what they can and how they should act. It's worth remembering too, that they do their very best horrible behaviour experimenting with the people they feel safe and secure with. That's YOU.

Showaddywaddy · 28/11/2010 20:46

Oh I don't expect it'll last forever. She's storing it up I'd imagine. Just qualifying that I'm not speaking from experience, so feel free to ignore everything I say!

moonstorm · 28/11/2010 21:00

This thread's very comforting!!

How do you all deal with the annoying mannerisms (especially when they realise it is annoying you so they do it on purpose. Loudly. Looking to see if it is getting a reaction...)

You know, making silly noises, blowing bubbles with spit, clicking sounds, on purpose dribbling(!). When I ask ds nicely to stop, he doesn't, telling him results in a flat 'no', ignoring means he does it more to get your attention. I know it shouldn't, but my blood pressure ends up through the roof...

He knows exactly which buttons to push. Part of me knows I shouldn't rise to it, but part of me thinks it needs tackling...

Thanks and sorry for butting in!!!

Adair · 28/11/2010 21:02

Ha, just be prepared for the er... irrationality of it to utterly throw you! But to be fair, we managed to work through them and the tantrums seem to have calmed (touch wood). And so far, I think my idea/experiences of an epic tantrum from either of them isn't actually that bad... My kids so far tend to give up after a bit so yes, not looking forward to the time when they get a bit more persistent...

Am with you on the How to Talk 'methods' just being how I try to deal with the kids anyway (on a good day, mind ). Had a quick scan of the book when dd was tiny (keep meaning to get out from library again) and thought, ooh yes I agree with the principle of most of this. Is how I approach the behaviour management of the kids I teach too.

Adair · 28/11/2010 21:05

moonstorm, I either snap 'dd, STOP it '

then 'dd, STOP IT OR XYZ will happen'

I ignore it and talk about/distract to doing something else

I walk away and say 'dd, I'm not listening to that noise. It's too annoying' or 'dd go and do that noise in the other room. It's annoying me'

moonstorm · 28/11/2010 21:33

Tried the first two to no avail - I like the last one - you can make the noise, but not in my earshot... Now to see if it works!!

Adair · 29/11/2010 06:41

As I said before - walking away is still 'not tolerating'. Refuse to be a willing audience for it!

(PS dd has just started doing bubbles with spit, SO irritating, isn't it?)

CheerfulYank · 29/11/2010 14:50

Ds spits too! It drives me absolutely batpoo. I mean, I just cannot stand it. Isn't it crazy how angry they can make you?!

The thing I have with the "fantasy" stuff is that sometimes the reason for things is simply, "Because I said so." Last night DS had a screaming fit at the video store because I decided we were going to watch a Christmas movie and asked him to choose one from the Christmas section. He wanted a Bionicle DVD, (which I wouldn't have let him get anyway because it looked violent.) I thought about giving in and choosing Clifford or something else he might have wanted, but then I thought, "You know what, no. I want a Christmas movie." Isn't that ok sometimes? It turned into a huge fit, but after he was calm we did talk about it. I think it's really important for them to learn that they don't always get what they want, because that's the way of the world. Right? Or am I just a horribly mean mother.
:( Later on when we were decorating the tree DS said, "I picked the tree," and I said "that's right, you did," and he said "The tree was my choice," and I said, "that's right, it was," and he sighed and said, "And the Santa movie was your choice." :)

mumbar · 29/11/2010 17:13

Excellent post cheerful. I agree 'no' is sometimes because you've said 'no'. I do the opposite with DS too. When he's asked for something and I've said 'yes, later' and he keeps asking sometimes I change my mind to 'no'. Trying now to teach him not to go on and on and on and on......

Although the 'fantasy' thing does work it doesn't with my DS, he just keeps going on about what he wants but does understand 'no'. He may not like it but he is so literal he needs a clear answer.

Original poster

blueberrysorbet · 29/11/2010 19:35

ds tried the dribbling, bubble spit thing. I tried ignoring him but couldn;t as his dd (16mth) copied. he did it at mealtimes mostly so i just either said ok you must have finsihed if you are playing about, you can get down and whipped his plate away- he said sorry mummy and got his food back. if he is just watching tv, i turn tv off and we do something else more playdoh anyone? I seem to say "this is your last chance to behave or ,..." does anyone else do this, hope am not too hard on him

the spitting comes and goes but by heck it drives me bananas!

OP posts:

CheerfulYank · 30/11/2010 00:50

Yes we do "behave or..." blueberry, don't worry! Or usually "Make a better choice or..." :)

ChippingIn · 30/11/2010 01:57

I think part of what you need to sort out in your own mind is that he is not a toddler anymore - your DD is a toddler. He is a small child, who knows better and who is able to behave nicely (as he does at nursery). He is choosing to be a little shit challenging and that's generally because often enough he gets a reward from it.

You and DH need to get onside with this - both have the same 'rules/limits/consequences'.

Somethings that helped:

You have two choices - you can do x or you can go to bed (anytime of the day) - if they don't do x take them straight to bed. No talking, no compromising.

When you know they know the rules (ie no dribbling at the table) simply take the meal away -there is no need for telling him again and again what the 'rule' is - he already knows. Do not give it back to him if he apologises - thank him for the apology and tell him he can get down from the table.

All people have their 'point of impact' where the behaviour isn't worth the punishment - you just have to find your DS's and it can change from time to time. One of ours was the bath - she hated not having a bath at night and hated even more just a stand in the bath get washed and out (no playing time).

You will find a few 'so what'. 'don't care' things before the find the 'point of impact' but you will find it :)

Don't give last chances when you know they know the rules - only do it if you genuinely think he might not know what he is doing is 'naughty' or if it's been a long time since you told him and you are not 100% sure he knows it's wrong - when you do it only drags out the 'finding the boundaries' same with counting - they only learn to wait until you get to 3 (or whatever) before they do as they are told - what's the point in that?

Good luck - if nothing else - sing 'this too shall pass this too shall pass this too shall pass' .....

mumbar · 30/11/2010 06:55

I agree with the counting. I have always used this myself and thought it was pretty fail safe as my DS doesn't like 3 . I tend to do a quick 1,2,3. I often worried that it was giving him the control back - almost like he gets longer to decide when to stop.

Well I'm glad I stopped it a while ago. A frind was counting for her DC to stop something (she had asked about 5 times - I kid you not). She I'll count to 10. At 4 the dc actually stopped her and asked her if she was counting to 5 or 10. . She said 10 so the dc turned her back continued to ignore her and did it bang on 10 instead. . I honestly sat there .
The DC is 5.8 btw.

Not helpful advice but matbe an insight as to where the dragging out of consequences can lead to.

halo47 · 01/12/2010 19:06

yep, me too. My 31/2 year old is shrieking in the background, i've had to bring him out of his sisters bed 4 times tonight and he has employed the classic go slow technique to everything I have asked him to do....thus giving him the excuse when I say enough, that's it, you've not done it, to say I was JUST doing it......and yes he does have the updated version of mummy taming, though I hardly feel tamed in my behaviour!

SpotSplatterSplash · 01/12/2010 20:15

Good thread, DS is exactly like this at the moment, he gives the impression that I am awful and takes every opportunity to show me up.

I repeat constantly "This is just a phase, this is just a phase"

I do 123 with him and he counts and laughs and sits in time out himself. It can be so frustrating. There are good bits with him every day and these do keep me going!

Rowgtfc72 · 02/12/2010 17:58

School was closed yesterday due to snow,dd 3.8 turned round to my dh and snarled at him saying "no school,Im not your friend now daddy" He was gutted.Her left foot was not my friend because I asked her to move it.Slightest thing and shes off on one!Tried ignoring and get more wound up!Found keeping her well occupied means shes not in my face !Hoping things will improve when she turns four(only three months to go)

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