6 year old boy (nearly 7) who gives me great worry.

[Flowertop]

Hi am brand new to mumsnet and really need some views and perspective on my issues with nearly 7 year old son. Joshua has just started year 2 and hates school. Finds difficult to concentrate and won't let you help him with difficulties he has i.e. with numeracy. Likes only to do the easy stuff and if anything hard faces him will completely switchs off and won't let you help him or go any further. At school he does not 'reach out' to any of his classmates for friendships (as his teacher has confirmed) and will only join in when invited to. I have been up to school countless times and witnessed him playing on his own while all the others around him are joining in. I always make a point of inviting other kids home for tea and play which is always instigated by me. In the time he has been at school since reception he has never been invited to anyones for tea - which breaks my heart. When you ask about friends he does not seem bothered but underneath I don't know what is going on. His teacher was not very positive about his work when I approached her last week saying that he is bottom average, can't concentrate, doesn't listen to instructions etc etc. I went home in floods of tears and am so worried about him socially and accademically. I asked teacher if he has learning difficulties but she seems to think not and she does specialise in this herself so should know. He does not like football, rugby or anything else I try to offer him as a road to socialise or just play with the others. He has a brother who is the most sociable and happy little boy out there. Any positive help would be appreciated. If you have had similar experiences I would love to hear from you. thanks for reading this!

sorry, got no helpful advice but bumping for you

Hi Flowertop

I would suggest talking to your health visitor about him, and possibly asking for a referral to a Speech and Language therapist (or seeing one privately if this is an option - often much quicker).

Perhaps Joshua has difficulties understanding language, your descriptions below make me suspect this :

"Finds difficult to concentrate"
"Likes only to do the easy stuff and if anything hard faces him will completely switchs off"
"can't concentrate, doesn't listen to instructions etc etc."

Also his difficulties mixing with his peers may be related to this or to other difficulties with understanding social behaviour and emotions (sometimes called semantic pragmatic difficulties.

Obviously I can't diagnose his difficulties, but from what you have said, this is just a suggestion.

HTH. x

has he had hearing/eye tests? my 6yo had difficulty concentrating and i was advised to do this. didnt help me but you never know!

i am a bit concerned that school dont seem to be offering any help. i would maybe ask about their special needs policy. they dont have to have learning disabilities to get extra help, we have had loads of help just because his behaviour has been a bit of a worry.

i think most of all just keep telling him how wonderful he is and persevere with doing difficult things. even little things like baking cakes can be seen by him as a huge acheivement if you make it out to be. i found this approach has built up his confidence and he is more likely to try things because he knows he has managed other tasks in the past.

dont really know what to say a bout the friend thing, except at our school kids usually get invited to tea at their mothers friends houses, i dont know any of the parents and my kids have never been invited. i do think its very rude of them not to invite him nack once you made the first move! i would talk to your hv or school nurse. my son has also joined beavers which seems to have made a differnce, they do a lot of team work and stuff so he cant avoid joining in so easily

Oh dear...
Just a thought but does he eat properly? as in food thats nutritouse and NOT full of additives and other stuff they out in processed 'kids' food?

Have you tried omega 3 supplements... a lot of people swear they they help their children concentrate (i personally dont belive in added vitamins etc and belive a balanced diet full of wholesome food is the way to go, BUT if he doesnt get that then maybe its worth a try)

Does he have a 'good' breakfast before he goes to school?

You dont say how he eats, and if he eats well i dont know what to suggest, but if he doesnt then that MAY help

Good luck

Some good advice for you already flowertop - I know Year 2 is a crucial year socially for children as from what I have seen already for my own ds, it's when friendships really seem to "bed down". I do sympathise with your predicament - social isolation AND worries about attitude in the classroom is a bit of a double whammy
As well as diet, how's his sleep and bedtime routines? We struggle with our ds intermittently to get him to bed early enough tbh and you can always tell the next day.
It seems to me you have observed very well the precise nature of his difficulties and from what you say the teacher could have been a bit more proactive - she clearly agrees with your concern, so what strategies does she have in mind to help him in the classroom?
I would also agree that some health checkups might help...eye and hearing tests, maybe also asking for a paed referral to be on the safe side.
Good luck - and welcome to Mumsnet. Hope you have lots of opportunities to join in the lighter side of life here in due course!

Thanks for all your wonderful responses. It's hard to talk to friends whose kids go to the same school as I don't want to highlight all my worries about my son to them which would only bring attention from their own children to him. We have had speech therapy as he does have a stammer and are currently in maintenance with his speech therapy. I talk to his ST once a month. He does have fish oils it's the one from Boots where it's strawberry liquid which I mix with milk. He has had these for ages. He goes to bed about 8:00 p.m. but his diet may need looking at. He will not eat vegetables and rarely eats fruit which I put in his Lunchbox daily (just in case he gets so hungry he will eat them) this just gets returned but I don't give up! He does have vit. supplements. You sound a great supportive bunch of people and it's good to be on board!!

Hello !

In some ways he sounds like my son , now 7 1/2 , who doesn't work well in group sports games because he has spatial awareness difficulties and also motor skill issues which undermine his self confidence, as he compares himself negatively to others of his age - so he prefers to avoid such situations. He also likes to play role play type games on his own terms so doesn't integrate happily into those of others.

We had a paediatrician appointment yesterday and are being referred for Occuaptional therapy which is possibly not relevant to your son. His school are being supportive over his writing 9he finds it physically difficult and hard ot get started on work) and concentration and he is having small group work as a result. Certainly worth ruling out some fo the common basic physical reasons for this sort of behaviour and if need be ask for an assessment either through the school SENCO or your GP.

Oh dear- it sounds very tough, Flowertop. It's always heartbreaking to think of our kids having a hard time at school, isn't it?

I actually think the most important thing of all is to show Joshua that, no matter what is happening at school and no matter what the teacher thinks of his ability and progress and no matter how hard he is finding it to make friends, you think he is wonderful and really value him for the person he is. I'm sure you already do this in all sorts of ways and this shows in the way you care for him. I do find myself that sometimes I forget to give spoken praise and regularly comment aloud about how great I think my boys are though. So I think that in your situation I would find it helpful, alongside the excellent suggestions here and all the things you are already doing, to try an overt, conscious praise offensive, with the aim of really focussing on and commenting on Joshua's strengths.

I've found this can be very useful, both in terms of making kids feel good about themselves and in helping them to develop, both socially and academically. So if Joshua loves yug-i-oh cards or playstation or watching a certain tv programme or whatever- it might be worth talking to him about who else in his class likes these and trying to find things to praise him for within those interests. Does he know everything there is to know about action man? Tell him so! Can he play video games better than you? Has he learned how to use a computer mouse younger than you learned how to use a pen? (Usually a safe bet, I find!) Is he kind to his brother or to any pets you might have? Equally you might find that book and comic tie ins with the things he really likes will help him switch onto learning more. I know some parents shudder at things like Top Trumps, bland Jackie Chan mini books, Power Rangers comics etc and they are also way overpriced which can be an issue, but they can switch on learning lights, ime. Top Trumps is great for Maths and social skills, for example. I know that it can be hard to find things to praise when it feels like you child is in a bit of a rut but it can be done. At a time when my boy was struggling a bit academically last year and was a bit turned off the whole school work lark I even resorted to praising him for his great sense of humour while he was watching Basil Brush. And even though this felt a bit contrived, when I thought about it it was true- it really gave the whole family great pleasure to see him rofl at Basil and we all ended up joining in because he has an irresistible yukking chuckle. It seemed right to acknowledge out loud that this was a great quality of his. He seemed ever so pleased. Ultimately, I reckon that when our kids are adults neither we nor they are going to care how they did in school when they were 6 or 7 or 12. But they will remember whether they were basically feeling valued and supported and loved. So I try to concentrate on that. Worry levels allowing!

I'm interested in his all singing, all dancing brother too! Is he older or younger? What is their relationship like?

Thanks for more excellent advice. I do try and praise whenever I can but you kind of feel it is hitting on stoney ground. I think I will just keep at it. I am happy to try to get a second opinion as to see whether there is any underlining cause for our problems i.e. spatial awareness difficulties but his Dad does not want to go down this route. He feels that Joshua has been through enough with speech therapy and does not want to start labelling him. He is a great dad and does spend lots of time with the boys. Joshua has a great relationship with his little brother (nearly 5)and apart from the usual sibling fights they get on fantastically well. When we where on holiday I said to Joshua why don't you see if you can join in with those boys over there who seem to be having fun. His reply was why would I want to join in with them when I can play with my brother.

Hi Flowertop. Sorry you're going through this, I have a DD who is a similar age. I agree that the teacher should be more proactive in coming up with strategies to help him cope in class. You mention his spatial awareness - has he had difficulties that make you suspect that he has problems in this area ? Was his development up to now roughly as you'd expect? I do understand your DH's concerns about labelling, but in my experience, if there is a problem it is better to find out sooner rather than later so that he can get any extra help he would need. My DD has dyspraxia and hypermobility and had a delay in her speech developement. Things have been considerably easier since her diagnosis due to her getting the extra support but also from the point of view that I feel more confident about my parenting of her - I always felt that everything seemed much harder than it should be but could never understand why.

hi again, flowertop

I do understand your dh's concerns as regards further investigations, it took us a while to come to terms with there being anything "wrong" but tbh I wish we could have intervened earlier. Unfortunately the teacher had had the year before was very negative about him and just sadi he was slow, disorganised, dreamy and needed too much help. Think it is also so much easier to fit in extra help when they are younger and it has less impact on school life. ds has always welcomed extra help and the attention of a one to one session.

I can identify with your son preferring to play with his brother. We also have dd (4) and they do play really well together so he sees little need for other friends and they can be a bit of an intrusion from his pov. I'm afraid I've taken the easier option to go along with it for now.

LizS would you mind me asking how you originally saw your DS difficulties and if the school were part of the diagnosis - did they see that he may have problems. Or did you just recognise something was wrong.

His teacher spotted that his difficulties were out of step with his age. He was our elder child so we didn't really have a comparison as to what he should be like. To us he was dreamy, physically unadventurous and a bit heavy footed. He had been borderline at a preschool speech/language assessment at 3 but his then teacher thought it was a developmental thing (he had also recently had an upheaval when we moved abroad and then his sister arrived) and he did seem to catch up. Looking back he did avoid a lot of sensory and group activities as a toddler/preschooler - didn't enjoy playdough and arts and crafts at all but preferred to sit on his own and look at books, for example - was slow to dress and respond to instructions.

So in a nutshell it was his teacher who initiated it, but when we discussed his problems there was a strong ring of truth to them so it was not a complete shock. Didn't make it easier to accept at first though the OT who did the assessment and the sessions was attached to the school. Even now I'm not sure he'll be identified as having a specific learning difficulty by the paediatrician, although he acknowledged that ds does have coordination problems holding him back in other areas. It is a very grey area.

Dreamy - yup. Unco-ordinated, yup. Likes to sit with his books - yup! That's my boy.
My ds has dyspraxia and some sensory problems and he is a bit out of step wtih his peers (he's three) though he does make friends - always with girls though (which is fab as girls are fab, of course).
I think if teachers have real concerns they should be helping you find solutions too.
Mind you, I think it is also important to remember that just as adults vary hugely so do kids. My dh isn't very friend oriented at all but he's very happy.

Flowertop, tried to send you a personal message but you don't take email from MN apparently. Coming through similar stuff with my ds (7.5) Not exactly same probs as you but many similarities . So if you want to swap stories, advice ,progress etc I'd be happy to converse on email with you. If you don't fancy it, that's fine too, but lets us know on mn how you're getting on. Best wishes.

Hello Mrsmoon good to hear from you. How do I send you email from MN. Would be glad to know your experiences/advice etc.

Hi Flowerpots, look for the 'contact another talker' on the 'useful stuff' section at the top of this page. follow the steps - remembering to put your email addy on for me!

Can't belive I'm saying this and it is as if someone I know has read my thread on MN but today Joshua has been invited to tea with a boy from school. I'm sure it's a coincidence but feel a bit happier today!