5 Year old using emotional blackmail

[rowingboat]

Hi all,
I posted a little while ago about my son (6) having problems with his friend.
He told me he has been avoiding his friend because his friend has been angry when people don't play 'his' games and refused to join in other people's games or always insisting on 'winning' games. I know this sounds ridiculous, but he won't 'die' when they play a super hero type game, although he always 'kills' the other children, if you see what I mean.
So it all sounds like fairly standard stuff, but when I have heard them together I feel sorry for my son.
The other boy is more articulate than my son, who is a bit on the dreamy side. I have overheard quite a lot of emotional blackmail.
Things like telling my son to stop making jokes or he won't speak to him any more. This sounds a bit daft, but it drags on and on and my son ends up in tears.
Other things are 'I have a game, but I'm not going to let you play it' then 'I have another game and you can't play that one either'.
I feel so sorry for my son. Often he doesn't seem to notice, but he struggles to respond and I am not sure what to say to him.
My instinct is just to tell him to play with someone else, but the 'friend' follows him around saying these things and is very persistent in getting his message across.
My son does have quite a few other friends at school and does try to avoid this boy and play with the others.
Can somebody help me to advise my son on how to deal with this kind of behaviour. He is a happy, funny boy and I can see he is coming home quite sad because of his 'friend'.
I think this is a real area of weakness for me, I am made to feel guilty quite easily so I really don't feel very well equipped to advise him. In fact help me as well.
It's probably me projecting my fears onto him.
Should also add the boy's mother is a good friend and is talking to her son about this, but I still feel my son needs to learn how to deal with this.

I think your son should say to his friend 'if you don't stop talking to me like this I am not going to play with you'. When he continues with his behaviour, as I'm sure he will, your son should walk away and play with someone else.

I wouldn't talk to the mum as she might become defensive. If she brings it up, you can say why your son isn't playing with her son any more.

My son had the same issue and he made stronger friendships with other boys.

Wannabeglam it is difficult to talk to the mum about. I know (from being a mum) how hard it is to hear unpleasant things about your child.
I have told my son to say something similar to what you have told your son. It's difficult when they are quite small because you don't know if they will remember what you said or be able to articulate very well.
Just have to trust his ability to cope I suppose.
I'm glad to hear that your son found new friends. Do you know what happened with the other boy (manipulative boy) or is that ancient history?

can't you explain the concept of emotional blackmail to your son. Show him how the other boy is using it to control him. Explain how easy it is to deal with once you spot it.
Just saying "walk away" isn't enough IME. You need to tell him that he is perfectly within his rights to do this (ie he shouldn't feel bad at all, he should feel he is being sensible) if the other boy is pulling this sort of stunt.

CatITH I have tried to explain the concept of emotional blackmail in very simple terms, but I'm not sure what is going in.
Hopefully, it will fall into place when they are by themselves. I just want to protect him from anything nasty, which I realise is not going to be possible.
I have had a quick look on Google to see if there is anything there about emotional blackmail and it just says not to 'enable' them by capitulating to their, usually unreasonable, demands.

Does anyone know of any resources for children to help them build assertiveness?

bump

What about trying some role play with him? You be the other boy and get him to pracitse standing up for himself, and then swap roles so he can see how he appears, and how the other boy might be feeling. I did loads of this with mine, when they are this young, it's easier for them to understand by "doing" rather than talking.

Thanks Hullygully.
I have tried role play with him, but to be honest, I'm not sure how to model this boy's behaviour. I have seen him in action and it isn't very clear what he is trying to get. He just starts saying 'I've got a playstation and I'm not letting you play with it' but there doesn't seem to be any reason in particular for him to say it.
I don't know what I would say to that.
'Er, OK, stick your playstation then!' (would get told off by teachers if he said anything 'rude' and I don't want DS to get into trouble because of my advice]
Do you think he should say 'that isn't a very nice thing to say, I'm going to play with somebody else' or something.
I have this horrible picture in my head of nobody else wanting to play with DS so he would end up wandering around being followed by this boy telling him toxic things.
[shakes picture out of head]

'I've got a playstation and I'm not letting you play with it'

"Sure, no problem"

Other boy WANTS to see your son cry, he WANTS that power. It's the powerplay that you & son aren't getting.

Once DS spots it, he can defuse it by refusing to engage, and he can carry on his happy dreamy life as normal.

Good play CITH. I would just get upset and say 'Why can't I play with it!!!
OK putting on my thinking cap about role plays for this.

You are not eeeeeeeeevil enough mwahhahaha

yet....

I am working on advising ds that the best response to much of this is to shrug dismissively and walk away.
Then if followed, to say "I don't think what you said is very nice, so I'd rather not play at the moment.' And walk away again.

Unfortunately I think ds is capable of playing both roles here so much talk of how saying stupid things like that makes people feel bad.

TBH they are a bit young yet, but I'm not going to change my story! It'll go in eventually

Sometimes I wish we had a team of child psychologists on MN, I really do.

This sounds like fairly typical school stuff at this age. Every child on earth learns to use manipulation in one way or another - because they see adults do it too!

Unfortunately there isn't much you can do except advise your son to walk away if someone upsets him and play with another child. I have a 6 year old too - she tends to put up with all sorts of cr@p from others because she thinks it's her duty as a friend and I've told her she mustn't do that but at the end of the say I can't go into school with her so a part of me kind of thinks let them get on with it. I've noticed her class as a whole is maturing since reception and that seems to have helped.

Yes I've just recognised a situation where one child really, really manipulates his peers (they are 6). It's horrible to watch the poor kids all crowded round, concerned, and knowing that of course you can't teach them not to show concern for (what they think is, and I can see isn't) a child in need. And this is going to carry on all through school. The stage is set for the child to milk them for all they're worth, for years. I know he's too little to be able to help it. I went to school with someone similar and wish I hadn't!

the boy is wanting a reaction - tell you child to walk off and find someone else to play with. He could say 'I'm not interested anyway' when the blackmail is used.

Alternitivly tell your son to just ignore the boy full stop. He can say that you told him to.

Bit of role play maybe might help?

Is it worth talking to the teacher?

My DS also 6 is often the victim to this kind of behaviour too.

I have come up with a great way to deal with it - still working on DS doing it atm. I tend to go up the the DC's and ask what the problem is - letting the dc whos manipulating go first. Often they will not repeat what has been said (as they know its unkind) . It is working and the child who does it is stopping doing it so much now.

Today a dc started going on to my DS about what a big family she has.(I know dc well and she is manipulative/ but lovely) (M,D and sis) whereas its just DS and me as he doesn't see his dad and soon to be step-mum. I started a polite conversation about aunts,uncles cousins etc as DS has loads - it became apparent our family is about 5x the size. The child then got bored of the conversation as they were proved wrong couldn't be unkind anymore and no-one actually got upset. Perhaps a better understanding occured?

I often think manipulate children lack self-esteem and need one-up manship to make them feel better/ more in control.

HTH

Thank you all for the advice.
Mumbar the asking them to repeat thing wouldn't work for this boy (annoyingly) because he says most of the stuff in front of me. Even when if I comment on his withdrawal of all toys/favours from DS, he just carries on.
The only thing that brings forth any sort of apology is if I say we are going home (which DS never wants - doh!)
Electra I know what you mean about not being there in the playground, but I'm not very good at letting him just get on with it. I mean in principle I do, but then I interfere/guide him when I think things are getting on top of him.

Skyblue that sounds pretty much like what we have been thinking about. He often brings up telling a teacher, because I always told him to do that when he was in nursery. I forget there are teachers in the school playground, but I suppose it is useful if he feels comfortable doing it.

Unprune that is the problem, they are so young that you wonder if any of it is going in or will be remembered at the appropriate time.
The number of times that I have thought of a fantastic thing to say half and hour after the event are numerous.

We had a bit of a chat tonight and he has been practising saying 'If you say that again I won't play with you' and 'well you can stick your toy up your bottom' (not sure where he got that from)

blimey, that sounds like one of mine

I think encouraging him to be assertive is a good plan. That can only help. I know how you feel though - it is hard.

Thanks everyone,
we have had a practice this morning and he is now making up lots of witty retorts, thinks it's all hilarious.
'I don't care about your game, you tiny little fluff, go on tiny little fluff dot com and play fluff games' etc...