Discipline for a nearly 4 year old: how can I get it right?

[Greythorne]

This evening, we were at a friend's house.

DD1 (aged 3.11) deliberately pushed her friend (aged 4) over and he was crying, seemed genuinely upset. (I did not witness this incident, but it was reported by a usually reliable 7 year old).

I instructed DD to say sorry to her friend.

She refused and ran away.

I warned her, "I am going to count to three, and if you have not said sorry, you will go home."

So, I reached three, she was refusing to say sorry and running away from me.

Started to get her shoes on. Sjhe started wailing, I want to stay, I don't want to go home. So I said, just say sorry and we can stay. But no.

So, I scooped her up, apologised to the mum, and bundled her out into the car. By this stage she was angry and hysterical.

Hysterical all the way home.

Hysterical for 20 mins at home.

Evenutally she calmed down and apologised to me.

I am feeling completely at sea. Was I too strict? Have I been too lax to date, hence the full on strops now? Is it wrong to threaten to leave?

Arghhhhhh. Your thoughts welcome!

Weeeeelll - it is a tricky one. On one hand, you could say you over-reacted by leaving after a pushing incident.

But - you asked her to say sorry, made the consequences of not saying sorry clear, and carried them out. Can't actually see anything wrong with that.

Btw, likely to be nothing to do with previous laxness, I have a DD of a similar age I easily imagine me being in your shoes!!

I suspect you won't have to do that again though - she will remember you mean what you say, and that goes quite a long way at that age, although you feel dreadful at the time!

Greythorne,
It sounds to me like you did the right thing. Definitely not too strict - you warned her, and then followed through when she didn't heed your warning.

I think with something like hitting, it's definitely not OTT to threaten to leave a friend's house. Maybe she was tired & over-excited, and that exacerbated the stroppiness, rather than you being too lax or too strict. Playdates can be really full on events for children of that age.

Sorry just saw it was pushing, not hitting. Still seems reasonable response from you, though.

I think if you threaten you have to follow through. So I try not to threaten!

I think if a three year old is not ready to say sorry, the adult can say it for them, model the appropriate response, and then the incident is closed.

You can have a chat with the child later about how saying sorry makes people feel better. They get it eventually.

othersideofthechannel

I take your point, saying sorry is very hard, for everyone, esp a 3 yo.

But you say you try not to threaten, but model the apology....but what sanction do you use in this case? DD deliberately pushed someone. if I apologise on her nehalf, where is the lmearning point for her, other than seeing ME apologise?

Not meaning to be argumentative! Genuinely interested.

I'm assuming she pushed because she was cross or unhappy about something?

I found it really shocking when my children went from cute toddlers to small children who pushed or hit when they got angry. But I don't many children who have never hit or pushed.

So I don't think they need sanctioning. I think it is enough for you to tell her that pushing is unacceptable and to remind her that if she says sorry to the other child, that will make them feel better. If she doesn't want to say sorry, you can say it for her.

Insisting on an apology just ends up as a battle of wills. Personally I don't think it achieves anything.

If she had carried on pushing, I would think removing from the situation necessary.

I don't know many children who have never hit or pushed.

But, I felt like the other child (and mother) needed to see some "punishment" was being doled out. Hmmmm, I know discipline should not be to please other mums, but....

You are right, though, about it becoming a battle of will. And although I removed her and that was her punishment, we all suffered, as I was enjoying the afternoon, as was poor DD2 who was forced to come home too!

Still don't know what I should have done. i feel a serious talking to, ie we don't push, that is very naughty etc would have been water off a duck's back.

I am guessing your DD knew she was in the wrong and was embarrased at being made to admit it. My DT's are nearly 6, so 3.11 seems a LOOONG time ago, but one of them is very shy, takes him an age to come out of his shell when going anywhere other than home, and when he does he can get a bit OVER enthusiastic to compensate for his earlier antisocial shy behaviour. As a result he can get carried away and pushing/shoving can follow. When made to say sorry he clams up as you are making a show for everyone to see and he is mortified. In those instances, he is put in time out. I apologise on his behalf to the other child, remove my child from the situation and show him he gets no further attention for bad behaviour.

What I feel strongly about though is not letting him spoil an afternoon/day out/tea at a friends for his twin who is nothing like him behaviour wise, therefore I never threaten the going home thing else I would have to follow through. So time out/punishment when he gets home usually does the trick (banning him from paying DS is working a treat at the moment!).

HTH

"But, I felt like the other child (and mother) needed to see some "punishment" was being doled out."

I know how you feel. I usually take my children off for a quiet chat so the other people can't judge!

They will say sorry now because they are old enough to put the other child's feelings first but in the past when they have been reluctant to say sorry, I have taken them back and said something for them.

OK, so I think I will, in future:

• have a quiet chat with DD to make it clear the bahaviour is wrong
• ask her to apologise but not get stcuk into a battle of wills on this
• apologise on her nehalf if necessary
• use time out there and then if poor behaviour continues

I was cross and I wanted to let her know in no uncertain terms, ie the slightly harsh threat to go straight home. but it really served very little purpose today as my threat just upped the ante. However, maybe going forward, she will remember there are horrible consequences to horrible behaviour?

Like Meely, IME if they don't want to apologise, they are usually too embarrassed to apologise.

You are giving far too much attention for bad behaviour.

I go to time out straight away if my daughter ever is physically violent to someone(which is very rare)- don't bother to count down. Put the child in time out (buggy, car seat, boring room with door shut - just anywhere they can't see people and are not the focus of attention). Give it 4 mins or wait till they have calmed down - then tell them to say sorry. Take them home if they don't. Don't make abig song and dance about it.

Praise good behaviour and playing nicely. Have fun and give lots of attention when good.

Different parenting styles I guess, between what othersideofthechannel and skybluepearl suggest. Not everybody is into time outs - plus the act of putting a child into time out is giving them attention, which is why I've never really understood it.

Saying sorry when you're not sorry (which might be the case with your child) seems odd to me - you're not teaching the child right from wrong, just that when you push you need to say sorry, and then you get to carry on doing what you want to do. I prefer to get them to check on the person they pushed to make sure they're okay - it seems more constructive - try to mend the wrong you've done. We all say and do things that we regret as adults, kids are no different. The sorry will come spontaneously once they understand, and will be a genuine sorry.

Just playing devil's advocate. I work with small kids and so I have to use all the methods like time out and saying sorry, because they're tried and tested - you get to SEE the behaviors you want, without really thinking about the process that's going on inside the kid's head. It just seems a little simplistic to me and I'm constantly battling with it in my mind.