I love her more than life, but after the week we've had I'm ready to give her away

[bean612]

DD is 23 months and sweet, funny and lovely, but also incredibly demanding and strong-willed - always has been. She was ill last week for a couple of days (temp, snotty nose, cough), and though she now seems physically recovered (apart from lingering cough), her mood has been VILE. She has shouted, screamed, tantrumed, wailed, hit, bit, scratched and slapped her way through the past 5 days, and I've ended up losing it with her a couple of times - yelling, not hitting. Even DH, who NEVER loses his temper with her (part of me is in awe of his self-restraint, part of me slightly annoyed/jealous) shouted at her this morning.

Maybe she's still feeling poorly, I don't know - it's tricky, because she's very verbal and chats away in sentences, but is too little to be able to answer a question like "does your throat hurt?" reliably. Also, I tried to feel for molars and think there might be a big one (one of the last four) coming through, but it's a bit hard to tell.

So... I don't know what I'm asking for here really... Sympathy I guess, and similar stories to make me feel better! Actually, coping strategies in the face of horrid screaming and hitting would be brilliant. I'm naturally quite impatient and easily angered anyway, and am finding staying calm in the face of the onslaughts really, really hard. I don't want to be shouty mummy, and I definitely don't want to be hitty mummy, but I am alarmed at how close I have come to hitting her back these past few days...

Lots of sympathy bean - a rancid toddler is enough to push anyone to the limits of their endurance. I was ready to rehome DS1 (3.8yrs) on Sunday after he threw eight massive tantrums and spent about three hours in total howling, so I know exactly how you feel.

Your DD could still be ill - if she has an ear infection she won't necessarily have a temperature or any other symptoms other than monumental grumpiness so it's worth taking her to the GP for a check-up.

As for coping strategies - when DS1 was younger and tantrumming, I would put him in his cot to calm down. I'd leave the room for a minute and then go back inside to ask if he was ready to come to Mummy for a cuddle; sometimes it would take a few goes, but that's what usually worked for us. (Obviously not to be recommended if your DD can climb out of her cot - DS1 couldn't when he was 23mos).

And for your own sanity, if you feel that you are about to lose it with her, isolate her in a safe place while you go and take some deep breaths or ring DH for some moral support.

I agree, the best way to stay calm is to walk away - keeps you calm and gives no attention to the behaviour. Mind you, my dd clings like a limpet to my leg if I try it! Each time she lashed out I held her hands and just said, "no, do not hit me". I find it best to try and remain emotionally detached from the whole episode, soon as I let my feelings get involved, that's when I start to get angry.Really very hard to do, but when I manage it, that's when it seems to dissolve quicker.

I would try teething gel and or calpol if you think there might be a physical reason. If they are tired or porley I have noticed that their ability to communicate drops back at least 6 months.
You can try asking her to point at anything that hurts, but if in doubt try some pain relief (I am not suggesting drugging your child but trying it once or at most twice to see if it helps).
If it doesn't try havinng a yes day where if at all possible you say yes to her, as i also discovered when dealing with a wilful toddler that I carried over the annoyances from the day before and making a real effort to have a fresh start helped both of us.

Hi all, thanks for your words. Yes, I did wonder about ear infection but dismissed it after I thought I found the molar coming. Maybe I should rethink that. She has been intermittently dosed up on Calprofen, though that doesn't seem to make much difference to her mood, to be honest (she can have happy periods when she hasn't had any for ages, and foul periods when she's had some recently enough for it to be theoretically working, iyswim). Teething gel has never seemed to work for her, sadly.

Good idea about fresh starts - yes, I have to remind myself that she can snap out of a grump in an instant, and that I should try to do the same so my own bad mood doesn't linger. I do also hold her hands and say "don't hit mummy" but it makes sod-all difference to be honest! And you're right, if I manage to stay calm, she does calm down more quickly. She can't yet climb out of her cot (thank god!) so yes maybe I'll put her in there rather than just in her room and shutting the door for a minute or two. Sometimes she can go on for bloody ages, though, and I don't want to leave her too long as she can work herself into such a state I think she might, I don't know, literally explode or something.

Sigh. It doesn't help that her sleeping is down the pan too. Last night she woke at 3.30 a.m. and after a 1.5-hour circus she went back to sleep (intermittently) until 6.30, but I did not. Less than four hours sleep doesn't really make things look rosier...

Have you tried teething powders, bean? I don't know that they help all that much with teething, but I've found that when my two get themselves into such a state that they can't calm down, the ritual of giving them a powder, and the crunchy taste of it on their tongue, helps them to snap out of it, even DS1, who's nearly four.

And it sounds as if you are both exhausted - if your DD lost out on 1.5 hours sleep last night, then she would be grumpy during the day regardless of any medical issues, and of course you would find it even harder to cope if you haven't had enough.

Don't be hard on yourself for not having the patience to deal with her when she's being difficult. We've all been there, and it's the hardest thing to rise above. Just remember that this is 'only' a phase, and it too shall pass, like all the other phases, good and bad, that you've been through together!

I hope you've both had an easier night, btw.

Hi bean612, I wasn't even a member on here but saw your message and had to join because it really struck a cord!

I am also easily angered and very impatient and I get grumpy with my children and generally think I'm a terrible mum most of the time as I often can't stop myself from swearing out of frustration! My daughter (who is now 4) sounds quite a bit like yours. She is very intelligent, creative and affectionate but has wanted to control everything around her from the moment she was born (hated having her nappy done and would scream and scream for example) which is difficult to deal with and when she was ill or tired everyone suffered. In a lot of ways I like it that she is assertive but it stretches my patience beyond what I have.

We had to spend a lot of time teaching our daughter how to calm herself down and deal with her emotions. It was so hard for her but she really tried and still does. It used to break my heart seeing her trying!

I don't have a magical solution I'm afraid but it is starting to get better now that she is older and at school. I am aware though that she behaves like me . . . sometimes I wonder why she is grumpy and stroppy and shouts a lot and then I realise that is what I do.

As I am writing this though it's making me realise that things have really improved lately, you don't see it when it's right under your nose do you.

Hi Bean
My DD was like this for a while. What I found most effective was to fire a scowling/disapproving kind-of look at her, hold her gaze for a moment (if you can), fold your arms and turn you back to her. It let her know that I was disappointed/not impressed with her horrible behaviour. It worked a treat and she soon stopped the tantrums.

Being consistent was the key and, before I knew it, it came as second nature to me.

Hi bean. How have you and your DD been?

Hi ttalloo, thanks for checking back! Well... up and down. She was quite her normal self this morning (she's now at nursery) but crazed last night, though when I picked her up from nursery they said she hadn't slept AT ALL so that may have had quite a lot to do with it. I think she is teething - I've noticed her shoving her fist in her mouth a few times. I think I will try teething powders, good idea. I've used them in the past to not much - apparent - avail, but like you say, maybe the distraction of having them might help a bit.

ChilledChick I love your idea of a hard stare, but when DD is flipping out she's not even looking at me, and if she is, she doesn't care about my facial expression one bit, sadly! What does work sometimes is if I lower my head and put my hands over my ears. This seems to freak her out for some reason, and she will stop for long enough to try and get me to look up again.

Monkeyflippers - I'm glad I inspired you to join! I've found Mumsnet to be an excellent resource when you feel like a terrible and/or clueless parent - hope it does the same for you. And it does sound like your DD and mine are spookily similar - I could have written your 2nd paragraph word for word. Glad your DD is learning to self-calm, as it were. And like you, I do try desperately to NOT get grumpy/cross/shouty because I know it's a terrible example to her, and if I shout, then how will she learn that she mustn't?

The other thing I do (which I forgot to put in as well) is when she starts throwing a hissy fit, is to say 'very good dear', step over her as I go on with whatever I'm doing, let her get on with it and take no notice.

I've noticed that a lot of kids I've looked after will stop a tantrum fairly quick when they realise they're not getting the attention they want. Kids are wonderful little beings, they know, all too well, to push your buttons.

I love the hands over the ears thing. Do you think combining that with the hard stare/glare might work?

Hi Bean
I just logged into mumsnet because I feel much the same way as you from the sounds of it and needed to read some reassuring words, know that I'm not alone etc so thank you for your original post and to everyone else for sharing your experiences...here's mine...

I have 2 boys - 4 years and 18months. My 4 year old has always been even tempered but VERY demanding - can't play by himself, is relentless in his requests for me to play with him. He is very sociable and confident and makes friends easily. He's also reached the horrible 4 year old boy phase where he shouts alot and hits me and his brother for no reason (not in a temper, just does it as he walks past) and is full of "toilet talk".

My 18month old has a very different personality - from the time he was born till 16weeks or so he would cry for up to an hour at a time and nothing I did would calm him down (silent reflux? never found out cause). Apart from that he was a cruiser- could occupy himself and was pretty happy. Now he is teething his back molars and has been for weeks and he can get really inconsolable during the day and at night and in the car. But the worst thing is that he is now really clingy and everytime I walk out of the room he bursts into tears and runs after me.

So now I have a demanding 4 year old and a clingy 18month old following me around all day (apart from when 4 year old is at playgroup or with a friend) long and I can't stand it! I have always needed a lot of personal space and like you Bean and Monkeyflippers I am impatient and have a quick temper! Each day I tell myself I'm not going to lose my temper at my 4 year old but I do. It doesn't help that he's got a very wind up nature and laughs when I tell him off. I'm also feeling sleep deprived with 18mth old not sleeping well.

Anyway sorry this is no help at all to you Bean but I do know how you feel! a grumpy mummy is not what I want to be but I seem to have no reserves of patience and so on.

Frozen peas and frozen strips of banana sometime calm my 18mth old down when his teeth are bothering him by the way.

I hope your daughter's teething resolves itself soon! let me know if you find anything that works

Hi bean612 again, I also find that sometimes empathising with whatever is upsetting her helps. If she really wants sweets but can't have them for example I say "I know you really want sweets, it's upsetting isn't it". It seems to disarm her a little bit.

I must say though that my little girl seems really smart and maybe that has something to do with it. I think if her school had a debating team for 4 year olds she would be on it! People don't usually believe me but if she is upset and I explain things to her to help her to understand she always has really good arguments that just stop me in my tracks. She usually has a really good point! Maybe we both just have very clever daughters!!! :)

It's so hard to stay calm and I don't have the answer to that. People often say count to ten or leave the room but my temper comes out of nowhere before I've even had a chance to think about calming down. Or I'll start counting and then just lose it anyway. I think it is definately worse when I am tired or stressed or under pressure (most of the time). I also very rarely get a break which I think is a bit unhealthy but unfortuneately my family have no desire to help :(

It is definately getting easier now she is a little older though so hang in there.