DS shooting random girls on school run. I'm mortified.

[Spidermama]

It was the usual busy breakfast shift in my house this morning. DS had to take something in to school to talk about and put on the display table. (He's 5) It can be to do with a hobby, a holiday - the breif is a bit vague. Anyway we're already late bringing in taking his thing in as I've been asking him for two days what he wants to bring and he has shown no interest.

So this morning I got him his story book which he's writing himself. He writes in it every night and we often read together the stories he has written. But he didn't want that.

So I got him his two big ugly monster toys which he plays with. He and DD do monster dance class with them which is hilarious to watch.

Anyway, he didn't want that either so he ran upstairs (by this time we were already leaving late) and got the plastic gun he bought in Italy with his own pocket money.

I don't like guns but he does and I thought at least it might prompt a discussion about Italy. On the way to school though I felt really embarrassed of him and kind of disliked him because he was shooting at various girls from his class. I told him, for the umpteenth time, he should only play guns with other people who want to play guns, but he just ignores me.

I've come home feeling terrible in several ways. I dislike him this morning, then I feel guilty for disliking him. I'm embarrassed for him that he's behaving this way. I feel it reflects badly on me. It's extra embarassing because I'm helpiing out at the school some days as I may try to become a teacher.

I just want your thoughts really. I'm confused about the gun thing because, whilst I find it deeply unpleasant, I've also been reading this book which says we do our boys a disservice by squashing this sort of play.

I'm confused, sad, embarrassed and guilty this morning.

Little begger . Boys will be boys - tbh my son never had guns because I didn't agree witgh them BUT found a gun shaped twig on the way to school once and did the same. Boys do this and I think it's often a case of once bitten twice shy - my son is not allowed to take his toy guns (yes he now has them ) out of the house so gun and shooting stuff is played indoors.

I think in a child's world guns are not the same - they live in a world where people don't die and playing allows them to offload their energy. It's a good talking point as they get older about the violence in the world and how guns can seriously harm others. At 5 though he won't understand this.

You "don't like guns" but you let a five year old buy one anyway?

The most vehement opponent of children playing with guns I know is a Texan who owns several hundred, shoots competitively and (having been raised on a ranch) is used to carrying a gun from an early age when out riding with his father, because of snakes. He plans to teach his children to shoot, at an appropriate age, and is drumming gun safety (which, for children, means "walk away") into them. However, like other people who understand real guns, he has a complete horror of toy ones.

ds1 does this, even tho he has no toy guns.
he'll run along shouting "shoot that baddie" etc etc

I have told him it is rude to do it, and that it may upset other people.

I don't think you have any need to feel embarassed

I let him buy a gun because it's not about what I like. I struggled for years watching him make lego guns, use sticks for guns and even bite his toast into gun shapes before I finally gave in. I also read in the book I linked to that we shouldn't squash these boys from indulging in this sort of play because it's bad for their confidence.

I remember playing 'guns' as a little girl. The difference is I played with other gun toting kids and didn't shoot random passers by.

He's lovely at home, but school seems to bring out the worst in him.

I agree with Hefty. Possibly not great that he is taking 'pot shots' at his fellow pupils but I remember DS1 (9) doing the same.

DS1 will turn almost anything into some kind of weapon (a plastic ELC garage, anyone?) and he has these discussions about warfare with me. I always tell him the truth, how it is scary, people get hurt, warfare is last option, etc, but a lot of things aimed at young boys almost glamorise it. I know boys, for instance, that are allowed to play 'Halo' and other such games. I don't allow it at all.

Your DS is very young, so over time he will learn, and question, the use of guns and other weapons, so try not to worry about him. As for others reactions, there will always be someone judging you for soemthing, so try and blot it from your mind

Thanks poshpaws. There are two facts which increase my mortification. 1. I'm helping out at the school with a view to possibly getting a reference when I apply to do a teaching course. 2. We live in trendy liberal Brighton where gun culture is deeply unfashionable!

He'smy third boy and my fourth child. The others have never really cared for guns so I'm new to this.

I would be very surprised if this were to compromise your position at the school. Surely they have seen this sort of behviour before. I know DS1 was/is not alone in his fascination with weaponary (oh, and just for balance, Phineas and Ferb ). Have a really good look around the playground and I'll bet you'll find others.

Lucky you living in Brighton, though.

DS2(5) is so different from his brother - so not into weapons, etc. Just as you are surprised by your DS' behaviour, I was surprised by my DS2's. A gentler boy in my home you could not find and such a contrats to his boisterous older brother .

Had to google Phineas and Ferb. Looks to be right up DS's street. I wonder if Father Christmas will bring a DVD?

I sort of get why you let him have a gun. What I do not get is, if you told him he must not aim at people who are not playing with him, and he then does it anyway- why did you not take his gun away after the first time?

In my book, disobeying instructions means confiscation of the object you are using to be disobedient. Has nothing to do with whether small boys should play with guns or not- everything to do with the fact that they need to learn to do as you tell them.

I think you're right Cory. I guess it's because I was on the school run, bearly on time having had a struggle to get him out on time and with something, anything, for the display table, and if I confiscated it he'd have nothing for the table.

You're absolutely right though. I should have first warned him, then confiscated the gun if he did it again.

Instead I shuffled to school all mortified smiling meekly at people and just wanting to get back home again.

Well ds is very much a gun boy and has been known to point his finger at people sometimes and shoot them. I am not able to take his finger off him so I just tell off, explain about the horror of guns etc. sometimes he listens sometimes not.

I know ds though so I have never allowed him to take any of his weapons (and yes he has a few at home) either sword type or gun to school or nursery.

I would have said no to the gun and explained why I thought it inappropriate. If he had insisted, I would have either

1 Let him go to school without his homework and explained to the teacher that all he wanted to bring was his toy gun but that I thought that was inappropriate hence no homework. I would have warned Ds this is what I would do though and I don't think he would have liked that.

2 I would have insisted he chose something appropriate, maybe giving him the choice of two things, before leaving the house. If he wouldn't choose between the two then I would have. Ds would probably have let me do this and then promptly insist on the thing I hadn't chosen but that would be OK with me.

Either would work for me but I wouldn't let him take a toy gun to school because I know how he would behave with it and I would be mortified. Also Ds already has suspected SN and some behaviour problems so I wouldn't want to add fuel to the already raging fire of blame that I endure each day for his behaviour.

Then good thing to know though is that it is pretty normal behaviour even if some children don't do it. I wouldn't worry too much what the school thinks, they have seem much worse I am sure.

Thanks bumbling. Good post. I wish I had taken more time this morning to do as you suggested and explain that the gun is inappropriate and try to steer him onto other things. It would have meant being a little bit late for school but I think it would have been worth it.

To be fair, his behaviour is frequently pretty mortifying on the way to and from school with or without a gun. Yesterday he sang 'Happy Poo Poo day to you' (to the happy birthday tune) presumably as a protest at my talking to a friend of mine who has two quiet and well behaved daughters. I shuffled away from my friend and sat him down on a bench to tell him off. I think he still felt his mission was accomplished because I was forced to stop talking.

I am struggling. I am dreading picking him up today.

He's 5, he is bound to embarrass you. Don't take it too much to heart. Remember in 5 years' time the tables will be turned and you can embarrass him.
I have a 10yo. The possibilities are endless

Guns are for shooting. If you give a child a play gun he will play at shooting. whether or not you feel this is acceptable is entirely up to you, but do consider the purpose of the toy before you buy it. I am antiwar, but for this reason, I don't buy my child toy soldiers and expect him to have little tea parties with them. he starts wars and 'battles' with his teddies instead

DC take imaginary shots at random passing cars. Call me a slacker mom, but I can't be arsed to worry about it (much worse on my plate).

6yo DS says mildly horrid things to others, too. The only thing that cheers me up is that I can see most of his male peers are pretty much the same.

Ds prowls the house in doctor's mask, bow and arrow strapped to his back, he thinks he some sort of robin hood secret agent, most often found posing infront of the mirror - he's 6. I have no problem with him playing with obviously make-believe guns and the like but that's at home or in the garden, he wouldn't be allowed to take them to school.

Would at your ds shooting at girls on the way to school, it just such a little boy thing to do. I'd probably shoot back.

Ragged DS4 also loves shooting random people from his car window, re-loading, then firing again. It's pretty horrible really.

DH says there's a primal need for males to satisfy themselves that they can be scarey and frighten people if they want to. This is difficult because I find it deplorable but of course I love my little chunky feller. I guess I'll just have to put up with it then or perhaps try to get dh to do the school runs when testosterone levels are at their highest.

That has made LOL, for the first time in ages.

As someone has said 5 and 6 year olds often embarasses us, it is part of their job really. The tide will turn when they are older.

Don't be surprised Spidermama if your son's gun was confiscated whilst at school.

If you don' like guns you should not have let your 5 year old buy one. I se it's not about what you like but guns are a very negative thing and no 5 year old should have one.

I think you're over thinking this tbh. He has a gun which he chose (because he's a 5 year old boy and you allowed him to) and he took it school and shot girls on the way. My brother used to run around shooting next doors kids with a cap gun, and he's relatively normal at 33!

"I also read in the book I linked to that we shouldn't squash these boys from indulging in this sort of play because it's bad for their confidence."

Utter shite.

My son is not allowed toy guns, nor is he allowed to play with them at friends' houses, nor make his own from twigs, toast, or any other breakfast item FFS. No guns, full stop.

But he knows how to shoot targets with an air rifle and when he's older he will shoot rabbits, as we do, for pest control. He knows how to skin and butcher one now so has a clear understanding that guns = death and are a tool, not a toy.

I wouldn't allow him to play with other toy items of violence so why are guns ok?

And I would have been disgusted at a parent letting their child "shoot" another :(

'Utter shite'??

So I take it by expressing such a forthright viwew on this well respected academic work that you have read it OrganicCarrot?

So you are happy to let your son kill real rabbits but horrified at any child who plays with toy guns?

Think I might gloss over your take on the situation thanks all the same.

I can see where Organic is coming from. Because she has experience of guns in a real working situation (and seriously, farmers do need to shoot rabbits), she is not happy about children using guns as toys and playing at shooting people. A lot of people I knew as a child had very similar views: guns were used as part of a rural economy, they were not toys. And that kind of person was often horrified by anyone even pretending to shoot a person.