Nursery teacher says DS 'needs help'

[Livvyluc]

My little boy started nursery ten days ago. He's three and three months and the youngest kid there, and has no experience of creche/playschool.

The teacher is very unhappy with his behaviour and has asked to see me next week to discuss things. She says he has serious problems and needs help. She has mentioned behavioural assessments and special needs and autism.

He has been throwing things (a bad habit which I am desperately trying to eradicate) and yesterday threw a wooden puzzle at another child. He's thrown a plastic plate at the T/A and has also been taking bites out of the toys. He won't talk to the staff but chatters away at home.

Right now I just feel like pulling him out of the setting and I'm sure they'd be glad to see him go. My HV says he has to settle in and not to overreact. But I feel really distraught and a total failure. Does he have a real problem or is he just adjusting to a new environment?

I think that is one hell of a judgement to make after 10 days. Talk about labelling someone.
Go to the meeting and see what they have to say.
A lot of children do things differently when they're in a new environment. My son's behaviour when he is nervous or anxious can be terrible (he's 7) but no one has ever suggested he has "problems". It takes time, for some more time than others.
Does he talk about nursery? What does he think of it? Is he happy?

And you are not a failure.

Can you tell I hate people who make judgements on others. I've felt like a crap parent this week at times, some people judge, some support. You need support, not judgement, to help him settle.

The important thing is ghat your DS is helped yo settle and feel confident in this environment.

It may be that some sort of assessment will help with this, put in place some support, provide some strategies to calm him.

It's no reflection on you. But it might help him so take a deep breath and listen to what they say.

A lot of nursery and reception teachers have away of making you feel like you're the crappest parent on earth. I think it may simply be that they have limited experience of the normal behaviours of young children. Is this teacher young? Either that or driven by money and the fear of other parents complaining?

My son's first reception teacher (I pulled him out after 1.5 terms) intimated to me that he was autistic and "needed help". Yet here he is at 17, doing A2 and far from autistic. Thank goodness that little prophesy came to nothing. Sure, he has had odd moments, but he's not autistic. Teacher was talking through her arse hat.

Your little boy is very young and is only expressing himself in the ways he knows. He may be a little young for nursery and your gut instinct may be right in that respect, but do not let this woman bully you! Do what you feel is right for your child, not for other people.

Oooo blimey! Did you have any inkling that this might happen- ie has his behaviour seemed different from his peers. Has he coped in playgroups etc etc?

10 days does seem a short time to make an assessment but also they may have a lot of experience and be trying to help.

Definitely worth having a meeting with an open mind, listen carefully to what they say, but then follow your instincts in what is the best course of action. If you think he just needs a bit more time to settle then tell them so. Good luck!

It's so young. My own DC had beaviour problems including a MASSIVE tantrum which lasted half an hour...screaming and kicking...DC is 6 and fine now in school....happy, popular...would not even speak or look at anyone when first began nursery....some take longer to settle. THe things you mention here just seem like normal frustrated 3 year old stuff....I know they don't all chuck puzzles but some do...plenty bite toys! Does not mean they have any problems.

Thanks MNs for your messages. Makes me feel so much less alone!

TBH I have had no real concerns about DS. He is a lively little boy, very affectionate, loves books and songs and is very interested in the world around him and keen to do new things. So although I don't have any in-depth knowledge I don't think he really fits Aspergers/autism profile thing. Duchesse your post is very reassuring, seems to me that teachers just reach for a label when young children are being difficult.

Livvyluc they sometimes don't have their OWN DCs so they forget what they've been taught about child development and as someone said talk through their Axxxs!!

SENCO at my DS's nursery raised something like this, but not in such a crass way. She gave a list of points that concerned her at nursery, and what they might indicate. She also gave us a list of stuff to think about in terms of DS's behaviour. It was very obvious that many of her concerns were totally misplaced, in that the behaviour was unique to nursery not a pathological problem. Knowing that helped her to formulate plans to get his behaviour at nursery closer to at home. On the other hand it was valuable to see that in other ways DS had some problems that we were hoping would just sort themselves out, and she was very helpful in arranging external support.

In your case 10 days seems to me very rapid to be reaching such a judgement, but you are well within your rights to ask for such a list from the nursery's SENCO. If you can't be given one, or if the SENCO is unable to justify the staff's comment, something wrong and it ain't you.

The Nursery Teacher shouldnt be 'diagnosing' anyway!

I have had a child in my setting (I am a CM) who I was sure was autistic, from a very early age, it was obvious that the LO needed some help. but I talked to Mum about the fact he was not doing things like pointing, and encourage her to see the HV, at no time would I have said he was autistic!

maybe she's right and he does need some help (I am not saying he has)...but better to have it earlier than not. Would you rather she said something now than in a bit and left you wondering why nothing was said earlier.

Or she's wrong... teachers make mistakes, children change etc

don't pull him out.. go and see what they say.

Above all nothing changes...he is still your lovely little boy

Is he there fulltime? If this is his first experience of anything away from you it's bound to take him a while to settle in. Is it nursery as in state nursery or a private daycare type nursery?

Can you talk to them about a gradual introduction ie you take him for some sessions and stay with him, then he goes on his own initially only for short stretches and for sessions he's more likely to be interested in?

Ppeatfruit is right - the only member of staff, in my kids school that has young children (0-11 that is) is the Head master!
The rest either dont have them at all or have 'children' who are in their late teens and older!
And Im also not sure but most Nqt's/teachers apart from prehaps nursery and reception staff, have no early years training at all

It could be, that if hes not used to interacting/sharing etc with other children in a creche/pre school type setting, he will find it harder. Prehaps share this point with teacher.
Id also ask if the school SENCO has been made aware of the teachers concerns, and has obsevered him.
Or is the teacher the school SENCO.

Good luck

Thanks Majafa !

It's way too early for her to be making such a judgement. Maybe he's just not happy being at nursery and needs time to adjust. Obviously the behaviour is a problem as they have to consider the other children but I'd be concerned that they're so ready to leap to this conclusion this soon. Sounds like your hv has their head screwed on though. He is very young still and often they behave like this I've found, then when they get closer to 4 it all magically goes away. Many of my friends had boys who behaved like this around the same age, seemed to be more of a "boy thing" as the girls didn't seem to behave the same way (socialisation?). The fact that he's chatty at home would suggest that he doesn't have autism to me. Relax and see what happens in the next 9 months, I'd wager he improves. If not, then maybe then you can seek out some help then.

You've had a lot of excellent advice, and as a teacher and the parent of a son with Asperger's, I can only agree.
It's very early to dx, both for his age and the fact that he's only been in the nursery for 10 weeks. Teacher is not qualified to give a diagnosis.
Monitor what's happening, at home and nursery, look for triggers and see what they can do to modify their approach to the challenges he presents and pre-empt problems.
Why on earth would you feel a failure?

livvy ... is this a private nursery? I can't beleive any teacher would stick their neck out and actually utter the word ''autism' at anytime, let alone after only ten days. There are many factors that contribute to your child's behaviour, they are not always disorders. Good luck!

DS's nursery did something like this. DS has always been one of those full-on children, and he's always had a temper, he's stubborn, he bit until he was 5, etc. Really, very little we did made any difference - I always said that if he'd been born two generations earlier (or one, in my case ) he'd have been beaten every day of his life for being naughty. Obviously times have changed (thank goodness) but we were at the end of our tether. I could go on and on about the things he did that were sort of different to other kids - nothing particularly on a checklist but challenging behaviour and strange reactions.

So when the nursery manager said it, we were kind of relieved. He saw the ed psych, who assessed him twice, said he was bright and a handful and needed help managing his emotions (this is true). We worked out (with her) that his strange reactions came from massive surges of emotions like love or friendship, not just anger, and once we'd worked it out, it was SO obvious and a lot easier to deal with (How To Talk So Kids Will Listen-style techniques).

We were able to keep him back a year from school because we live in Scotland, and we did - I think that has been a success so far.

The emotional reactions still sometimes elicit a violent response, and he can still react badly to people when thwarted, and also we've noticed that he cannot take us laughing at him (in a family-jokey kind of way). But largely he's grown out of a lot of it and is more of a relaxed child. I'm glad we got the reassurance from the ed psych.

HTH a bit. The nursery staff sound like they are massively overreacting to a child whom they haven't known long and who might simply think they aren't worth talking to (ds has an uncanny knack of doing this too - actually all dh's family does, it's quite odd)! But don't be worried if you aren't, iyswim.

my ds1 also started nursery when he was 3 y 3 m and he was far too young...he had also never been in that sort of environment without me.

It is my greatest regret that I kept sending him when I knew he hated it...no behaviour problems from him, just distress and complete lack of concern from staff.

I wish I had deferred ds1 til he was 4 - which you have every right to do.

How can they say he has issues after only 10 days? He is 3!!! 3 year olds sometimes throw stuff!! Jesus!

we were also spoken to about ds

in a way, I was relieved as I had always suspected he had some needs that were slightly different to others

I think children, and especially boys, change so much in those early years. And it is extremely early to label anyone BUT it is always worth keeping an eye on these things.

I should also point out that I went to the lengths of the earth to find a nursery that I knew would provide the right sort of setting. If this is your first child and you haven't 'done' nurseries before, you may want to re-evaulate the nursery and look at others. But give them the benefit of the doubt and see what they say next week then decide what steps you want to take.

A hell of a lot of 3 year boys seem to struggle with nursery so he certainly won't be the first and you may find another setting that is quite used to dealing with children who don't quite fit the mould!

Similar almost happened to my DS, only I managed to pull him out after 2 settling in session.

Some little boys are boisterous, don't have as great speech as little girls etc. Only some nursery staff are prepared to help - I was told by the original place "I cannot help him" wrt my DS. So, on advice of MN and family, I didn't send him. Instead sent him to another nursery who were willing to actually help. He went there for 18m, now doing brilliantly in reception. Some nursery staff are, quite frankly, lazy and ignorant and only want perfectly behaved, advanced talking 3 year olds.

No judgement should have been made on your child for at least 6 weeks to allow him to settle etc. Take him out, the place is obvioulsly no good for him.

I agree with MadameSin. I currently teach 5-7 year olds although I have also taught nursery and reception and at no time would I ever, ever say to a parent "your child may be autistic". Obviously there are children you have concerns about - some grow out of behavioural difficulties for want of a better description and occasionally they don't and you realise that your concerns were warranted .

In our school, any concerns must always be addressed to the deputy head who is also head of special needs. We would be hauled over the coals if we approached a parent directly with such a 'judgement' esp after only 10 days

If it were me I'd pull him out and put in a major complaint about the teacher.
You would know if there were something seriously wrong.
My eldest wouldn't have coped with nursery every day at that age - can you find somewhere else where he can do two or three mornings?
Oddly enough he didn't say much at nursery either probably until he was 3.5.

Livvy - as a nursery manager i really think that the teacher is out of line. I would always let a child settle for a month or so, then chat with you if aspects of behaviour were concerning me to see if it was just at nursery.

Go along and listen, then ask them 'do you feel its appropriate and correct for you to make a judgement on my ds with only a limited time of working with him?'.

I'm not qualified to make a diagnosis of a child but i can speak to a parent and ask for outside help with the parents permission. Lots of 3yr olds are like your DS, i really think he needs time to settle before anyone gets overly concerned

thanks for replies, as so many of you have pointed out, it seems to be a little boy thing. He's also become a bit concerning the last few days by having weird toilet accidents, weeing in his bed while awake and stuff. Think the poor wee thing is stressed out and quite frankly so am I!