My 2yr old dd is unrecognisable, I can't cope

[cupcakes4all]

My dd is 2 this week. About 3 weeks ago her baby sister was born. Initially all seemed well but things have rapidly started to disintegrate.

She has started to wake howling and screaming nearly every night at 2am, crying for us, sobbing and then running around, wanting to play, still sobbing and saying no to everything.

I am literally sat here in tears, I am so worn out. She has come back from nursery and I have just endured a complete meltdown. She didn't want to eat lunch, I then had to bundle her upstairs (not easy with csec scar) and then the nightmare ensued: she was thrashing and screaming, pushing me and yanking her top off, nearly strangulating herself. I tried to pin her down, to keep her from hitting her head or kicking my scar, she screamed herself into a rage. I then let her go and she stood in a corner, still crying like mad, tears and snot streaming. I have smacked her on the bottom. I feel like shit, I then started crying myself and I feel like a terrible mother, I can't cope. I should never have hit her.

I have been hit so much as a child and vowed never to smack mine but I just did. I'm at the end of my tether.

I don't recognize my dd anymore. In nursery she hugged and kissed me when I came in. I don't even want to scream at her, I feel so guilty now. What should I have done? What can I do? Why is she like this?

I currently have my mum here and try to spend as much time with my dd, leaving the newborn to my mum but the csec scar makes it difficult to bathe and carry my elder daughter.

Please I'm despairing.

Am bumping for you but can't really give any advice. Could you involve her in the new baby a bit? Congrats on your new baby.

Oh cupcakes. Hugs, hugs and more hugs. My (nearly) 2-year-old DD has been a bit like this recently, though in her case there's no new sibling on the scene, it's because she's still settling into nursery (she's getting there but still finding it quite tough), and although I usually only work 3 days a week, I'm working full-time at the moment because I've hit a busy patch, and that includes working late, so she doesn't see me in the evenings. Last night DH called me at work in despair because she was screaming and every single thing he tried to calm her down didn't work (and he's pretty hands-on and around often, so it's not as though he's not used to dealing with her).

I wish I could offer some advice - others who've experienced this kind of thing (ie. reaction to a new sibling) will be along shortly, I hope. In the meantime, just to say I really sympathise. It's awful, and it makes you feel appalling. I once smacked DD - not hard, but it shocked her and me, and it took me days to get over it. You're not a bad mummy. You're just in a horrible situation.

Cupcakes, the only advice I can give is that if you are getting upset enough to think of hitting her you need to remove yourself. If she bumps her head while she is thrashing about thats better than being hit.

Could your Mum take DD out for a couple of hours so that you can spend a bit of time with your LO and have a break from DD?

My DS was upset when DD was born. It lasted a couple of weeks.

It will get better.

Thanks husky. I have tried that and she seemed fine, helping to bring a nappy, etc. but then she wants me alone, which is fine and I play with her. After a while she wants something, TV, an item in the house (lights, knife, etc) she can't have and when I say no she completely disintegrates. But properly, throwing herself down, howling, pushing me away, throwing things, etc.

I have been so patient for the last 2 weeks but I have just completely snapped and screamed in her face and smacked her on the bottom and now I feel like the lowest of lows. I want to make a change but I can't see the way forward.

You are not a terrible mother. You are trying to recover from a cs, you have a tiny newborn and a bewildered two-year-old trying to find her place. Forget the smack on the bottom - she will forget soon enough. It sounds like you are doing all the right thing focussing on her and leaving the baby to your mum. Has she just started nursery? Has she just gone back? I'd be tempted to keep her at home for a few days - maybe she feels she's missing out somehow with the baby at home with you and granny. I have a two year age gap and my strategy was to focus on my two-year-old and leave baby to get on with it to a degree - on the basis that the oldest was used to the attention the baby didn't know any different. I also tried to involve her as much as possible in everything to do with the babay - fetching an carrying wipes, muslins, cotton wool anything to make her feel indispensible and involved. It will get better- it's very early days. It think the adjustment from one to two children is greater than the adjustment to having your first baby (especially if you've had a cs). Good luck and lots of hugs.

I needsomesleep, I think you are right. When I started to cry I sat there and then I did leave the room and she came after me: Mummy, mummy, mummy.

And my heart broke that I have hit her. I keep crying over this because I was hit so much as a small child and it has really scarred me and made a relationship with my father impossible.

bean, yes your wording is right, I was shocked and so was she. I have handled this really badly.

My Dh is trying to come home early every day but even with him she had a tantrum like this and he said he drove to work and sat in the car crying over her behaviour and that he screamed at her.

We both don't know how to handle these outbursts. Directing dd's attention onto something new doesn't always work when she's in a proper rage.

Don't feel too bad, its done and thats it. You've just got to try to not to let it happen again.

Thanks Lillian. I have tried to let her go out with my mum but she doesn't always want to go. I've kept her at home for a few days to spend time with me and she liked it but grew a bit bored despite the attention of 3 adults. She loved going back to nursery and often bounces straight into class without as much as a glance back but these displays of anger shake me to the core. They also shocked my DH who is patient and gentle with her but lost his rag and shouted after that one episode. I can't help but wonder if we're doing something really, really wrong.

I think removing yourself from the situation is fine but then she sometimes comes after me or calls out as soon as I leave the room.

She's always been headstrong and determined with quite a temper but now all bets are off and the trashing and howling is hard to watch.

I know, INSS, I'm calming down now. I am having a strong cup of tea and will ring my Dh when he's out of the meeting.

We took her out to a nice brunch last weekend, just her and us and a few friends and their kids and she loved it. It's just that I cannot magic the new baby away.

(She keeps saying: "Put da baby back, put her down." Into her moses basket she means.)

first off, 2 year olds do this. they have temper tantrums with no real reason, and they don't need to have a new sibling to start doing this.

you have smacked your child once in response to very trying behaviour - hardly monstrous?

in general i agree with dealing with older kids first and then handling the baby - though its not always possible.

thrashing and howling is just done to get their way, and if you eave them to it they have to stop sooner or later (though i seem to rememebr timing DD to half an hour, but after she found i wasn't going to cave, she got bored and calmed down.)

That's pretty normal though for her to ask that.

When DD was about a month old we were all on our way to playgroup and DS told me to leave DD at home. I had to explain that we wouldn't leave him without a grown-up and the baby would be very upset and lonely without us. He was 3 though so probably a bit easier to reason with.

She will calm down and adjust, it will happen.

Two year olds have tantrums - it's not called the Terrible Twos for nothing! She's learning that she's got her own free will and she doesn't have to do what you want her to do. I doubt there is a parent in the world who hasn't lost their temper with a toddler having a tantrum at some point in their lives. There are any number of books written on the subject and I'm sure mumsnetters will be queueing up to give you their top tips for dealing with tantrums. My own approach (with dh singing from the samehymn sheet) was to ignore as much as possible (easier said than done I know!) Once your dd realises that having a tantrum doesn't get her her own way she will have to try another tactic so I would go for praising and rewarding good behaviour to try and reinforce that. The tantrums won't stop entirely (she is two after all), but it should hopefully reduce them and put an end to them in the long run. Leave the room and if she comes after you let her say sorry. I think it's important that as soon as she pulls herself together, says sorry, stops the tantrum she gets a big hug and the incident is immediately forgotten.
Most importantly remember you are not your dad and the memory of what he did to you and your determination not to repeat it is making you a better parent not a worse one. One smack on the bottom does not wipe out all your good intentions it shocked you both which may be no bad thing.

Console yourself that her and your behaviour is pretty normal when there is a newborn baby around. It is tough for everyone. I found going from one to two really hard (three was a doddle in comparison). I would take it easy on the older one and don't sweat the little stuff. So if she wants to watch TV - let her, it will give you all a break and there's nothing wrong with a bit of cbeebies. If she has a tantrum - leave if she is not in any danger. You are moving into a new phase of you life when things may have to be done differently. You just all need to be as happy as possible. In the short term, could she do a few more hours in nursery if that would take the pressure off ?

Hi wanted to post because we had a similar sudden change of behaviour in our two year old, ours was related to starting nursery rather than a new baby but it had the same horrendous tantrums constantly and left us feeling totally lost and unsure how to handle it.

One day it just clicked with me what was going on though. She initially didn?t like going to nursery and that made me and DH feel incredibly guilty. So while she was having the tantrums we were trying too hard to reason with her and be accommodating because of the guilt we felt over sending her to nursery. We were effectively giving her positive reinforcement for her behaviour if you like without meaning too. (Example I took her to a birthday party and she wanted me to climb up into the soft play frame with her - as I was 6 months pregnant I couldn?t physically fit so refused. Cue HUGE tantrum, screaming, refusing to come down from the frame for the party tea. However instead of taking the firm line and threatening to take her home if she continued and then taking her home I just did empty threats because she was enjoying the party so much and I was feeling sad about nursery etc so I couldn?t do it to her. However I paid for this at the end of the party because she had another tantrum about leaving and I actually had to get one of the other parents to help me carry her to the car and then I sat in the driver?s seat crying while she raged in the back!

It was at that point I realised my guilt at sending her to nursery was making me not be consistent with consequences and my DD was probably unsure where her boundaries were and didn?t actually want the 'power' she had over her parents. So DH and I sat down and had a chat about it and realised that although we felt guilty about her having to go to nursery we had to be consistent with her boundaries and follow through consequences etc. Things have improved dramatically and she is back to how she was.

I know your situation is different because it is a new baby but do you think your guilt over bringing a new baby into the house could be making you 'try too hard' and not be definite in your boundaries and consequences IYKWIM?

Sorry this has turned out so long but the sudden behaviour change just struck a chord with me!

Just wanted to add that the great advantage of being two is that pretty soon she won't remember not having her sister.

If she's having a tantrum because she wants something she can't have you've got to ignore it. Leave her to tantrum in the middle of the room and leave if necessary.

Does she play up when you're paying attention to the baby, or isn't mostly when she can't get her own way?

And regarding the night time waking, go into he to let her know you are there but don't engage with Herr, don't let her get out of bed and leave her to cry if necessary (not always a popular option, I know).

Oh, I just need to add my

my DS was about 14 month old when DD was born, and by god, he created hell! (yet, for me, I found myself blaming poor DD for lack of sleep / rest)

Now we are 14 months down the road (DS 2.5, DD 14MO) and they are great friends and we area a little team.

it is SO very tough. I dont think I coped properly until DD was about 9MO (I am on my own with them)

Everything you are feeling and experiencing is normal, but you need to ask for help (as you have done coming on to MN)...

No, you shouldnt smack, but you did and you are sorry and you will learn from that. You are not alone in that. I have smacked my kids I am not proud to say that, but it is true.

She is little and she is readjusting too. Can you organise some childcare so that you get a little one-to-one time with both kids?

Edgar is right, you and your dh must recognise that this is something 2yos do. Yes, it is wearing, yes it is not unusual
for parents to be utterly frazzled, but you must try not to be frightened by the tantrums. They don't mean the same thing as an adult displaying that level of anger. And they certainly don't mean you're doing anything wrong.

My dd had dreadful tantrums. She is a perfectly civilised teen.

She was also jealous of her baby brother. They have a great relationship now.

Just keep repeating: it will pass, it will pass.

My DD, 2.5, also has terrible tantrums. She is well used to nursery, no new sibling, it is just the terrible twos. DH has been really shocked by the violence of her tantrums. She will try to hit us, throw herself around the room, run into the door etc.

We have found that hunger is a huge trigger for her. So now, when I pick her up from nursery, I have a biscuit and a drink in the car. She won't eat them if she is not hungry, but quite often does have some and this has removed one definite cause of the tantrums. If your DD has tantrums shortly before lunch, hunger could be at least part of the cause.

One smack does not make you a bad mother. The most important thing you can do is say sorry to your DD and explain that you were very sad and that you will try not to ever do it again.

Hang in there. It is tough but will get better.

Lillian, thank you for your kind words. I do have a better outlook now, I still feel guilty but it happened and I will make sure it doesn't happen again. We wanted a small age gap for the very reason that she'll probably never really remember being an only child. Only time will tell if it was a good idea.

Lucy, she's allowed to watch cbeebies but at times all she wants to do all day is watch telly and throws a fit if I switch it off after half an hour, an hour. She's oing 5 days a week 8.30-12.30 in nursery. She's such a great girl there but as soon as we return to the house: major disaster.

Plumm, interesting you say that. She will 'fake' cry at times without a reason when she's near me and as soon as the baby wakes she will cry, too. There is definitely a competitive element to her tears. Though it also seems that her tantrums have gotten worse when it comes to not having her way/ getting what she wants.

Oh harimo, hats off to you, what a small age gap you are very brave. Doing it all by yourself must have been very challenging at times, esp. when they're so small. Reasoning doesn't work with my dd though she can sometimes be quite patient. I have been lurking on MN but today I reached the end of my tether and snapped. I have learnt my lesson, I'm just regretting that I did what I did and couldn't be an adult and be above it all. A hug is very much appreciated, we were both shaking, she's asleep now.

I have spoken to my Dh and we'll take her out to a nearby restaurant tonight if she's being good.

cory, you hit the nail on the head: "They don't mean the same thing as an adult displaying that level of anger." My H and I have made the mistake of seeing it for that which is a mistake. Thanks for giving me a perspective!

1stbaby: I answer your post last because you bring something up that resonates with me. Guilt My DH feels guilty and so do I, we are trying to be very consitent but maybe not enough. We recently laughed when she climbed out of her cot and sauntered around, she seems to know she can get away with more now that we both feel this way. I have been in exactly the same situation as you, I needed help to bundle her into the car in the last stages of pregnancy while she screamed in the back. Only now, since the baby is here has she started to really rage. Always at home, never outside the house. I have to see when she does this to get an idea what exactly upsets her. I can see that we are somehow enabling this behaviour, ie. rewarding it by bringing her extra milk, giving her extra attention, etc when she wakes, screams and kicks off. Hmm...I have to think about this some more but your post got me thinking. thank you.

A cousin of mine's 2 year old was exactly the same when his cousin was born. (His mum was pregnant at the time so he suddenly realised what that meant too)
He glowered at the baby, shouted to put her away when anyone picked her up, said "put that baby back in the basket" and wouldn't talk to visitors and accept presents because he knew they were visiting the baby. He cried and cried when his grandma held the baby.
Luckily he is very articulate for 2 and could voice some of it - saying grandma loved the baby not him, that kind of thing, but it really seemed like he was struggling with all these feelings and didn't really understand them and couldn't explain so he got very angry and upset. (Somtimes he'd flop down on the sofa and say "I'm stressed!" It sounded comical and just like he was repeating an adult but we think he did feel stressed by all these new emotions of jealousy and stuff.
They didn't really find any trick to snap him out of it, just tried to include him, spend time separately and talk about what he could be feeling and trying to help him understand.
Sorry this got so long and I don't have any real solutions but the good news is it only lasted a few weeks and he's been mostly completely fine with his new baby brother!

Running, I will have to watch my dd a bit more and see if this could be the case. I get grizzly when I'm hungry, I can understand that. She did seem very exhausted today, the nursery has maybe worn her out. I will try and pick her up half an hour earlier.

lorna, you have brought up something else: my dd can speak quite well but not really express feelings apart from sad and happy. I think it is time I spoke to her about what she feels.

My dd has just woken up, I will say sorry and spend time with her.

I will keep watching this thread and come back when I have a minute. Thank you so much for all your kind posts, I really appreciate the advice and hugs.

Cucakes, do you have my DD1? This is exactly wha she is like at the moment - she was fine initially with the sister but now I get - put her down, Stop feeding and play with me. She cannot handle being asked/told what to do and will melt into a snotty heap as just being asked to put something on the table! Ihope it will pass but I'm pretty sure the tantrums are age and not the baby if that is any consellation.