five month old sleeping badly, I haven't slept since he was born...suggestions?

[marthamay]

Hello everyone,
Please excuse this long and rambling post, I am completely sleep deprived! If you can bear to be bored, read on!

Today, as every day, I am sort of semi-awake. I feel like I'm living in fog and starting to go a bit mad....
I thought maybe if I wrote this down I wouldn't feel so alone and crazy with lack of sleep. I think I just need a little reassurance that it's going to be ok, but I'd also appreciate any advice or pearls of wisdom from those of you who have more experience, particularly if you had a similar experience.

Here's my situation:
My little son (first) is now five months old. He is EBF. For the first 8 weeks of his life he woke up a lot, as you would imagine and I guess as is normal for a tiny wee newborn. He woke to feed, to poo, etc...

From 8 - 14 weeks we travelled to Australia to stay with my family. He also woke up a lot at night (every 2-3 hours max) but I put that down to jet-lag, different beds, different routines, different people etc...

From 14-16 weeks we were back in the UK and sleep was bad, but I put this down to the big change again in timezone and routine. I thought that once home he would start to settle after a while.

Well, he never has. He never seems to sleep for more than 2 hours at a time without needing help going back to sleep. Most nights this is just a bit of patting/hand holding/shushing but on many occasions is a lot of pacing/rocking/feeding.

Now we find ourselves at 23weeks/5 months and it seems to be just as bad, if not worse as it was when he was just born.

Of course, I don't mind the feeding because I want him to eat as much as he needs, it's just those times in between feeding when he just seems to need comfort. I don't mind comforting either...I'm just so desperately tired and would love for him to feel safe and protected enough not to need that.

Every night I try and work through the potential "maybes" that could be causing him to wake...

• temperature of the room?
• is he hungry?
• overtired or overstimulated?
• is he teething?
• has his nappy leaked or become too full?
• is his itchy eczema keeping him up?
• has he napped too much in the day?
• has he got wind/reflux?

you know what I mean....

Well, I try and I experiment but nothing seems to work. Actually, I can get him to sleep better if he sleeps beside me in bed but honestly, I really don't like it and I don't get ANY sleep at all when he is next to me. So he sleeps in a cot beside my bed, within touching distance.

This is a typical day and night:

6:30 - wakes up
7:00 - feeds
9:00 - 10:00 or 11:00ish nap
feeds
2 or 3 ish - naps for an hour or more
feeds around 4 or 5
6:30 - has a bath
7:00 - feeds to sleep (pretty quickly)
9:30 - feed
11:30 -wakes
12:30 - wakes and sometimes feeds
2:30 - wakes
3:30 - wakes and feeds
4:30 - wakes (can be WIDE awake at this time)
5:30 - wakes
6:30 - wakes for good

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKK!

I have a pretty laid back attitude and figure that this is a very short period in his life and in mine and I should be able to cope with a bit of tiredness. I just want to know that there is light (and sleep) at the end of the tunnel.
I'm not feeling depressed, I don't get angry or fed up with him, I just feel so tired that I'm not sure how to keep going and to be a good mum.

I'm not so into the idea of CC and I can't start him on solids yet because of his very bad eczema, I need to wait one more month, although I'd love to know if this really is going to help him sleep better.

Due to my husband's work, we have to go to Japan for 6 weeks in November. I am dreading turning his little world upside down once again and wondering what I could possibly do in the next 8 weeks to try and establish a better sleeping rythm. Any ideas would be very appreciated.

I guess I want to know that he is normal, that it might end sometime in the future and that it is not just me being really crap at this baby-rearing biz.

Apologies for this long, long, long post....

I know he's EBF, but have you tried expressing? If you can and he'll take the bottle, there is one obvious immediate answer to YOUR problem, called a DH. Even if he won't, then since often DS is waking but not wanting a feed, surely DH can cuddle the wee mite in bed? Go and kip in the lounge for a couple of nights and let him take the brunt for a bit. And if he's not there, get a broody friend. You deserve some sleep, and this is not some hideous rejection of breastfeeding, just a way of letting you do it for longer by choosing when you do.

At breastfeeding support we were shown a graph of baby's 'growth spurts', just points when they get better at seeing or understanding the world and so sleep less well cos it's really exciting. Pretty scary cos it suggests you can't really do anything, but also reassuring because it suggests you're not not doing anything. Couldn't have got through if it hadn't been possible to share, even just handing baby over after feed and crashing. So, no, you're not being crap, think this is 'normal', and might need adults to change a bit, not the kid.

Ah I don't really have any suggestions but didn't want your post to go unanswered. It may not really make you feel any netter but my DS is 9 months old and at five months had a very similar pattern of sleep (if not worse) and it has slowly (almost imperceptibly) improved.

Are you co-sleeping? We are and it might be a way for you to get more sleep?

You sound like a lovely mum.
My DS2 has been a bit of an up and down sleeper and one thing I found has helped has been being a bot more regimented with his naps during the day. He has gone from waking up every 2 hours to once a night - most welcome ! He is also exc BF and didn't start solids until 6 months. I am to lazy to faff with expressing ! We are doing BLW so he has only really started getting into food now and he is 8 months old today ! Being on solids made little difference to his sleep.

So our day looks like this
7 ish wake up - BF
8 ish breakfast
2 hours after wake up - nap
BF
lunch
3 hours after previous wake up - nap
BF
Dinner
Sleep by 7 ish which is usually 4 hours since previous wake up.

I have never done CC and have found the no cry sleep solution by elizabeth pantley v useful.
Good luck and hang in there

so sorry for your sleeplessness op - had similar situation with DD but in the end just put her in our bed and DH in spare room. Not an ideal situation for us, but it was just the way she was/is, the only explanation is - that's what she likes to do. She's nearly 3 and still comes into our bed most nights even though she starts off in her own. I know that's not helpful - but wanted you to know that you are not alone - LOTS of parents have their DC in their beds with them - willingly or otherwise. Good luck and in the meantime, get a babysitter in the daytime (friend/family member) and just catch some zzzs - the more you can get the better x

What a nightmare - no wonder you are felling like you are going mad. This is a tough way to live.
It sounds to me (not an expert - just a mum) that your little one needs to learn to self settle. At the moment they wake and cry adn you comfort them and they like that so the cycle goes round.
I'd recommend the Dr Ferber books on Solving your child's sleep problems - he is very good and does not advocate "crying it out" but rather a sort of controlled crying. I don't know if you are like me but I got the two confused and thought controlled crying is leaving them to cry until they give up - I was wrong - that's generally called crying it out.
Controlled crying (from what I understand) is letting them cry but also letting them know you are near and haven't abandoned them - you're just not giving in to them. You have to be a bit tough/strong and be able to stand the crying (I hated it) but it is for the good of both of you - baby and mum both need some decent stretches of sleep and you're just not getting it. For both of your health you need to sort it.

I'd try deciding what time you want them to go to bed and start working on a routine (if you don't already) - ours was change nappy, babygro on, sleeping bag, up to bedroom, teeth brushed, feed to nearly sleep - put in cot slightly awake, tuck in with teddy/monkey/comfort thingie and saying the same thing every night - We say "night night baby see you in the morning" and then leave the room saying night night. If they cried I'd go back in after a minute or two (as long as I could stand), tuck them up again and pat them - say the same thing and leave again ... repeat ad nausium - you're not leaving them to cry thinking they are abandoned but you're not lifting them from the cot so they aren't getting the complete change of "being".

Your little on is still a bit young to sleep through then night (and I personally don't think early weaning is the answer either) So you're going to have to feed still in the night until they are ready but every 4 hours is by far (usually) enough for your average baby. So I'd try getting them towards this goal by doing the patting and shushing and leaving inbetween the "feeding times". It will be hard for the first few nights but it will reap benefits after that as baby learns that bed is to sleep and that they're not getting out for a cuddle just because they have woken up.

Gosh what a long post - sorry to have rambled, hope I haven't preached and good luck.

i can completely relate - my son was an awful sleeper (lasted 8 months but am sure yours will earn sooner!
my only advice would be to try not to wake him from naps (if you are doing this) as i was and paradoxically found the more sleep he had in the day the more he had at night.
i was so concerned he was waking due to being hungry for 6 months of it as i had no idea how much he was eating as i was breastfeeding so maybe try a bottle of formula at night time (10ish) - your partner can do it and you go to bed as well!!
we travelled to australia too when he was 6 months then again when he was 15 months (and i did the flight on my own) i can't tell you it was great - and both trips took him ages to settle both when we got there and when we got back, sorry this is probably not making you feel better but hopefully it lets you know you're not alone!!
just try and sleep when he does and get out of the house as much as you can - the days go quicker! (hard i know when all you want to do is stay indoors!)
at 8 months when i was about to lose my mind i tried controlled crying which was basically leave him for 5 minutes go in reassure him you're there you know he's crying but it's sleep time then for another 5 mins etc maybe as long as 10 mins but i found that really hard.
it worked in 3 days and i'm sure he was as relieved as me to be getting a good nights sleep. he was so much happier in the day time! 5 months is early though - try and be patient - you sound like you're doing a GREAT job. he is lucky to have a mum who is so concerned about him :)
keep it up and get any help from anyone partner or otherwise you can to get the sleep you need even if it's during the day.
otherwise nap whenever he does and forget anything else. it's hard to live like that i know but it doesn't last long.
get someone else to do the morning routine while you have a shower too can help psychologically too - i always got up and let my husband go to work then tried to shower around the baby which was harder and i found i used a valuable nap time to shower rather than sleep.
hope some of this helps and good luck with the Japan trip!!! take blackout blinds with you for wherever you're staying - it might help?

oh ps i use aveeno and nothing else for my son's dry skin and epaderm after the bath which helped enormously with dry skin.

another vote here for aveeno - made a huge difference to my DS ( although his dry skin is mild) and the bath oil smells divine !

Hello - not too sure if I will be able to help but I'm coming at this from the eczema POV as that's where I've been for the last year or so!

If you are following the usual advice it's unlikely to be room temperature. However, if your DS has eczema he may want the room to be a tad cooler than the norm. Some kiddies with eczema get v.hot. My DS radiates heat.

I don't think CC is right for a baby so young, especially if the problem is potentially for a medical reason. I do think it helps if they can learn to self settle for naps etc as then they can settle themselves again in the night rather than waking up and thinking they need Mum to get them back to sleep. Maybe it would be worth trying some white noise? I used a hairdryer for a few days and after that DS went off to sleep on his own.

We have had some shocking sleep problems due to eczema although in DS case it was being awake once each night for a couple of hours because he had woken hmself up scratching and couldn't get back to sleep, inspite of being a good self settler. He is now 20m and for the last 3 has generally been sleeping through the night and getting around 10 hours. This is because his skin is now a lot better.

DS eczema was only moderate as your DS's eczema is really bad and you think it could be causing sleep problems push to see a specialist. Also the National Eczema Society is excellent. They have an advice helpline and lots of good advice in their literature from experts and other sufferers and carers.

You are not a crap Mum, you sound like a lovely Mum.

marthamay, not only do i emphasise and sympathise but our situation is so extraordinarily similar and i am so sleep deprived myself i had to check that this post hadn't actually been written by me.
my daughter is 23 weeks and hasn't slept properly since birth despite having a relaxing, calm bedtime routine since two weeks old. like you i put it down to her age (up until about twelve weeks) then she began waking more frequently (5/6 times a night) and will often be wide awake babbling at four or five in the morning. it's a loooong time to not have proper rest, especially when other mums may well have children who 'sleep through' at a similar age. trust me, i have read so much advice on this subject i could repeat it verbatim but nothing so far has worked for my little one, and i like you, am not into the idea of controlled crying.
i think you are along the right lines of self soothing - my girl wakes sometimes every forty minutes (i've read that a baby's natural sleep cycle from light to deeper sleep is forty minutes - if they wake from this unable to self soothe they will call out for you - not necessarily crying but a definite noise of demand or want) - and just sometimes need a gentle rock or shusshing back to sleep.
like you, i have found myself pacing (the only thing which seems to work sometimes) while my unhappy baby cries and cries. it's horrible. i am happy to do this and am prepared to do so for as long as possible but, like you, i am concerned that my baby seems so unhappy and wish i could somehow fix it for her so that she could get a good nights rest.

as i am exclusively breast feeding i have been co-sleeping so baby can latch on and dreamfeed if necessary - i tried a few spoonfuls of baby rice on my h.v's advice but baby not interested, just stuck her hands in the bowl and in her hair. good girl. so hunger is out the window. what i will say (wrapping up this gibberish) is that i have booked in to see a cranial oesteopath tomorrow - it's out first session but i have heard good things about the sort of results you can see with sleeping problems and young babies (and they are still so young!). have a look online, there is lots of info and what i like about it is that it seems very non-invasive but the outcome is usually very positive.

if you want i can let you know if we have any results ? your approach to parenting sounds very similar to mine so thought it may be a nice alternative to try.

good luck, stay smiling, all things must pass! (eventually)

xx

p.s sleep deprivation story - after getting off the train with baby in the papoose i looked down to see her strapped to me, but couldn't shake the mounting horror that i may have left her on the train. this feeling grew and grew even as i passed through the ticket barriers and could still see baby strapped firmly to me. eventually, knackered and concerned i approached a kind looking gentleman and asked him
"can you see a baby strapped to me?"
he nodded in the affirmative and scuttled off. i must have looked mental.

I could have written this post when DD was 5 months old. Thought I was going to go mad with sleep deprivation. I did try controlled crying once but couldn't follow through on it. I found a book called the 'No-cry sleep solution' very helpful.

It is really tough going and you have my sympathies. I found things started to improve then would slip back again for a bit, but there was a slow, gradual improvement and at about ten months a big improvement. By 12 months she was sleeping 7-6ish in own cot in own room. She is now 2.5 and sleeps in own room but does patter along to us for a bit on a lot of nights.

Looking back, I did what I thought was right for us in terms of not leaving DD to cry but I do wonder if I could have been a bit firmer about trying to help her learn to self-settle. Also, good day time napping often leads to good night time sleep as the less sleep they get, the harder they find it it to sleep if that makes sense.

I would really recommend the book but I also second getting some help. If your DH is not currently getting up at night, then he needs to take a turn too and take the baby out sometimes to give you a break. I wouldn't be ashamed of asking for practical help from any family or friends you have nearby.

It is really tough and you sound like you're coping very well. It does get better and FWIW although DD was a rubbish sleeper for the first year, she's pretty good now, has always been a brilliant eater and was incredibly easy to potty train whilst some of my friends who used to smugly boast tell me about their baby sleeping 7-7 at 8 weeks old have had issues with these so it evens out in the end! Have to say, I'm hoping for a baby who sleeps a bit better next time round because I found it incredibly hard going.

hi marthamay - I also have a nonsleeping 5 month old and am walking about in a daze. What makes matters worse is I also have a 2, 4 and 6 year old to deal with, you would think by no4 I would know what I was doing!

No1 slept like a dream from an early age and I was one of those smug Mums, no2 and 3 did not sleep through until I night weaned at about a year, no4 is the same if not worse than his two sisters.

At 5 months a lot of babies cannot sleep all night without at least one feed. Your DS does seem to be particularly restless. Mine is up 3-4 times in a night usually.

Things that get me through it are cosleeping but I know you said you get no sleep like this, we have a bedside cot so half the night he sleeps in his cot at my side of the bed, it makes the bed bigger so to speak and means I can get some sleep. When he wakes, he doesn't even cry he just moves and grumbles and gets a boob. I am sure he must wake and feed in the night and not wake me properly now as well. I am awake for a maximum of about a minute each time he wakes which still isn't great waking but at least I can get back to sleep.

Solids made no difference to the other two wakening in the night btw.

I got to 12 months then I night weaned in that I left them with their Dad, went into another room and when they woke they got no boob just Daddy cuddling them back to sleep, first night was rough but after that both slept really well and still do. I wouldn't do CC or CIO.

I think you just have to do what's best for you, if you have to express milk and allow your DH to do the nightfeeds and you sleep in another room every few nights or read all the books you can and come up with a strategy that you feel comfortable enough.

Someone I know once her DC is fed and changed and just crying and not settling, puts them in their pram and puts them in a room downstairs, closes the door and lets them cry to sleep, I personally couldn't do that but that's what she feels comfortable doing.

Hello!

I understand how you feel! I have a 6 month old whose the same. I felt under lots of pressure to try things I didn't want to (controlled crying, giving formula etc) which is horrible when you are sleep deprived and vunerable.

Anyway, recently things have got a bit better (only 3 wakings a night) with a combination of factors (can't pinpoint which one has actually helped most...)

DH gives EBM bottle when he first wakes up after going down for the night (nice fast flow teat!) which I think has helped to fill him up. We also went to see a cranial osteopath as DS had a traumatic birth and think this may still affect him (it can't do any harm anyway!) And we starting giving him mush for dinner as part of his weaning (lots of carbs!). He also always goes down on his tummy.

DH also uses ear plugs and the baby sometimes comes into bed with us in the middle of the night if he's been up a lot and I can't face getting up again.

All was undone last night with a fever from 6 month jabs, but I feel like we're progressing in the right direction at least!!

Good luck!
x

Has he always been like this? I sounds like he's still not got that dark=night time. It's so hard, I wish someone told me that babies are born nocturnal. I reckon that your trip to far off hemispheres has exacerbated it, but tis fixable.

First of all, you're fortunate with the time of year. Couple of weeks and it'll be dark most of the time.

Second of all, he;s 5mo. Hardest point IME.. growth spurt hell +teeth = grouchy baby. chuck in millions of other variables and you're a confused mess.

Make sure he's not in pain when sleeping (teething is often much worse at night when they're not busy). Neurofen, not Calpol.

If that doesn't work, try more feeds in the evening before bed, and perhaps a dream feed??

Thank you, Thank you for so many kind and understanding replies!

It was so nice this morning to come down and read all these stories and responses. I can't tell you how much better it feels just to share this and to know that I'm not alone.

AdelaofBlois, you are so very right, it has so much to with how my DH and I communicate and help each other out. Actually last night was a bit of a triumph (from my POV) as when DH came home last night I brought it up and he agreed that for the forseeable future, until things get a bit better or until I have caught up enough, we are going to do shifts so that at least we both manage to get a stretch of uninterrupted sleep - last night I got 4 hours!!! So I dream-fed at 10:00, went to bed, hubby woke me at 1am to give a feed but then took DS straight off me so I could go back to sleep. I then slept right through until 4am while DH dealt with the wakings. After that I took over - but at that point I felt so refreshed that waking to calm the LO was absolutely fine. I actually feel better this morning. A few more nights of this will really do wonders. !!!! We even discussed the possibility of me going to stay at a friends house for a night and leaving DH and DS with some expressed BM.
I think I will have to be pushy for this to become more than just talk, but it'll be very worth it.
I think that DH's slight reluctance to help me out is basically a lack of confidence on his behalf. DS is so much more at ease with me and I can get him to sleep and calmed down so easily in comparison (me and my AMAZING milk jugs!!!)that it almost seems counterproductive to send him in - BUT I think that is probably a bad pattern to get into and will only get harder and harder so it's best now. Maybe if my amazing milk jugs are not so readily available at night then DS won't be so eager to wake up and have a nuzzle.

MummyBerryJuice thanks...actually it makes me feel a lot better to know that I am not at all alone with this and that people do come out on the other side.

sazlocks good suggestion about naps. Last night I was reading about this actually, the whole 'sleep begets sleep' thing. I think it's true and I certainly notice that DS sleeps best when he is not tired or at least overtired. I have been reading about the 20min light sleep/20 min deep sleep cycle and am going to start paying more attention to this and see where DS is having the issue, whether it is going from one cycle into the next or whether he is finding it difficult to get beyond the light sleep stage.

Speaking of the imp...he is waking from his morning nap now....

I really am so grateful for all these responses. It makes me feel normal again!

Hi - my DD was a tricky sleeper and woke at least once (usually twice or more) until over 7 months. I know that's not as bad as what you're experiencing, but I do share a small amount of your pain!

I would wholeheartedly endorse pretty much all of what BonzoDooDah said about self-settling. One alternative which you might prefer to CC is gradual withdrawal, which we found good with DD. On this technique, you put them into cot following a good routine, drowsy but not asleep. If he feeds to sleep you unfortunately need to get him at least a little bit awake before putting him down - we found putting DD into her sleeping bag usually did the trick.

Once in cot and lights off (have a landing light or night light on so it's not completely dark) you stand or sit next to the cot, providing reassurance in the form of a hand on the tummy or shoulder, or murmuring a repetitive phrase, until they doze off.

This can take a while - the first night we did it DH was up in DD's room for 1.75 hours - but our experience was that it tailed off quickly - she was settling down pretty much straight away within a week. Over time you stand or sit further away from the cot, until you get to the point where you can put him down and just walk out.

One other thing I think is hugely important is to discuss what you're going to do with DH in advance and both be utterly committed to it. A useful tip we used was to actually write down what we were going to do in detail - then when you're desperate at 2:30 am you can look at it and strengthen your resolve...