NCT 'friend' just said that DS shows early autistic signs.

[homemama]

I've just come back from coffee with one of the mums in my NCT group and I was discussing how I'd posted on here last wk as I was worried that DS was a little hyperactive. She agreed then said that she didn't want to worry me but that she saw some early autistic signs in him. She said she knew a lot of autistic children and that it goes hand in hand with ADHD. She said the fact he flaps his arms, jerks his head a little and doesn't clap or point are signs. Her DD is older at 10.5mths and does both of these. She also said about how he obsesses about things like the phone and the shiny bin. She told me the red book says pointing at 9mths but can't find mine to check as were moving in 4 days.

I had thought he was different but didnt occur to me he may be autistic as he copies me, cries when I leave the room,plays, answers his name (to me and DH only tho)and he is in no way passive. I had to leave early as I thought I as going to cry and now am shaking.
Sorry about sp etc as I'm feeling very anxious.
I don't want to be a neurotic mother but when she said it I felt sick to my stomach and spent the drive home thinking if there were other signs.
any advice would be great before I drive myself crazy by checking the internet.

To be fair to the mum, I know I've had thoughts before (usually after reading special needs threads or seeing a tv programme on it ... blush) where I've "seen" autistic traits in a little boy at ds1's nursery (he was about 2.5) I didn't say anything though.

Just as well, as he's a perfectly normal exhuberant little boy now - just shows that amateur diagnosers should keep their nose well out! On the flip side, the first true autistic kid I've met, I didn't realise - he was picking on ds1 and I got into mother bear mode and then felt really ashamed of myself when the kid's mother later turned around and said "he can't help it, he's autistic".

So in defence of the mother, she's probably seen a few TV programmes or read a few articles and thinks she's genuinely being helpful. Silly moo

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POINTING - is THE sign - BUT (silly cow of a woman) should be in place by 18 months (pointing out thing of interest). Most children are pointing by 13 months. Pointing STARTS from 9 months (usually in girls). Give the silly cow a kick in the shins.

If your child of 9 months is copying I would say they are unlikely to be autistic.

Your "friend" knows jack all and is best avoided I think.

carrying on from georgina's point- we sat next to some women on a train last week. After half an hour they commented on ds2's non stop chatter and said "the other one hasn't said anything yet". The other one is 6, non-verbal and was blatently stimming for all to see- yet they missed him. People who don't have hands on experience of autism generally can't spot it with bells on.

I recently saw a baby that made me think "hmmmm" and "hmmm' again a few months later- but I'm still not sure (waiting for the pointing) and wouldn't dream of saying anything to the mother even if I was.

Once again, thanks to everyone. I'm a lot less anxious now I've weighed up the fact that a) she isn't qualified and b) she is somewhat competetive
Yes, Jimjams, he copies when we play and he shows me toys and shares his cracker with me. These and the fact that he is not remotely passive (shouts for my attention all the time) are the reasons that ASD was not something I had worried about at this stage. BUT, when someone tells you THEY see it, it really does cause worry.

what a totally repulsive thing to say to anyone. that isn't competitive parenting that is downright bullying. stupid cow i would give her a wide berth in future and just wait for the day she asks why so you can tell her

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That is terrible. God, I don't know what goes one it people's head sometimes.

She shouldn't have said that especially as she clearly had no idea what she was on about!

I also have a dd of 16 months who probably started pointing a few weeks ago! And when I went to the doctors recently he was telling me some things to look out for at 18 MONTHS and pointing was one of them!

I always thought that autism wouldn't show until over a year at least?

A teacher suggested my (very dyslexic) brother was autistic when he started primary school. She really had no idea.

I'm like jimjams I may look at a child and think mmmmmmm? but i would never say that to someone.

even when asked (and I have been a few times) I just ask what the concerns are, and then if I think they are right to be concerned I just suggest that they ask for a referral to a developmental paed and give them some ammo to do it.

An early early sign is not reaching out (although some do) but if your son is sharing crackers and showing toys then he's gone past that stage. Sings do show before a year, but in ds3's case (almost 8 months) I think he's OK (shows one thing that could be classed as a sign- but not in isolation), but I won't be sure until after a year. I knew 100% that ds2 was fine when he was 15 months- even though he didn't start talking until months later.

God - even when I was worried about ds1 I loathed people I didn't want to talk to about it putting their head on one side and giving me the f concerned smile. I chose who to talk to about it. Grrr.

jimjams what do you mean by stimming? and when you say the pointing is THE sign, do you mean that they aren't pointing or are?

Homemama I feel angry for you. If someone said that to me I would be fuming.

I agree with everyone else. The "friend" sounds barmy. I've seen a few young children who IMO have ASD traits but wouldn't dream of going over to their parents to say so.

I can't believe she said that to you I really can't. My ds2 is 14 months and isn't pointing or clapping and I can categorically say he is not showing any signs of autism whatsoever. Stay away from competitive mothers they are the worst. That is such an insensitive thing to do to someone. God I felt terrible for telling my mate I didn't like her conservatory yesterday and I've known her for 30 years!!! I can't believe this woman said this

thanks jimjams, I'm not at all au fait with autism and thought that it didn't start to show until after 18 months (so I've read on MMR documentation) so couldn't understand how this 'friend' was saying homemamas babe had signs of autism.

My mum (a doctor) thinks that all children especially boys can show some autistic tendancies at times. My ds 4.5 still hand flaps & he's not autistic - well I don't think so!

Jimjams taled good sense to me when I was worried about my ds. He still has some 'traits', flapping, sniffing (but this is going), odd repetitions, sensory issues like walking on tip toes etc. He is always going to have odd behaviours, I think, but then so does his dad!

Hi homemama

I work with autistic children every day and wouldn't dream of diagnosing anyone's child. I am not qualified to diagnose even though I'm very familiar with a range of autistic children. Diagnosis is usually made at a minimum age of 3 years by a multi-disciplinary team including a paediatric psychiatrist, speech and language therapist, paediatrician and a psychologist. Diagnosis is usually arrived at after a long period of assessment and certainly NOT after a brief meeting with a child and certainly NOT under the age of 3.

So rest assurred, no expert in their right mind could give any kind of diagnosis at this stage.

Children change SO MUCH in their first year or 2, watch and enjoy, and if you're concerned, speak to your GP, don't accept these comments from a woman who speaks before she thinks. Perhaps she didn't mean any harm, but she needs to learn to keep her opinions to herself!

HTH.

I wouldn't be angry... I'd be amused. Homemama's friend is just so... ill-informed. She meant well, but she's wildly wide of the mark.

It can be diagnosed at 2- and ceratinly I will "know" about ds3 by the time he is 18 months. Children can be flagged up at 18 months (see the CHAT test). But not after a brief meeting with a 9 month old baby- that's ridiculous.

Hi henshake, just wanted to add to the general chorus here. It is amazing how easily people use the "autism" word, and how little they think of the impact. My ds was considered borderline last year - and the SEN suggested to my husband that I was too (because on a school trip with ds I avoided the busy parts of London Aquarium - I am an introvert fgs!!! - oh yes and I had a broken arm/jaw at the time, so really wanted to be around crowds of 5 year olds...)

However, what I really wanted to say is that many children (and adults) have some aspects of autistic behaviour, and some of these are more apparent at different periods. Many make very little difference to your "success" in life, and could be more usefully thought of as character differences. I have been told that perhaps half the population may be on the autistic spectrum (and not just the men - one piece of recent research suggested that autism in girls may be under diagnosed as the symptoms may be less noticable) Having said that people with autistic traits do learn things differently, and of course for some it can be catastrophic for both them and their families.

It is increadibly easy to worry about development when children are little, but they really do take their own pace, all of those expected milestones are guidelines it's only when a child is way off target that you should worry. Talk to any teacher about the variation in a classroom, or any parent of more than one child and you will find wide differences in developmental timetables (my son was just a bit emotionally delayed - now he seems pretty much on a par with his peers, as indeed his very experienced reception teacher suggested prior to all of his referrals!)

no no no please half the population are NOT on the autistic spectrum. people with autism have real true difficulties, a lifelong disability, which in many cases prevents them from living an independent life. please don't downplay it.

However it is true that many people like to avoid crowded places. And ds2 loved to line up cars- his autistic broother hasn't ever lined up a anything.

Jimjams, it was an opinion from an autism specialist, but I absolutely do not want to downplay the very real difficulties some children and adults have in living in the NT world. However the autistic spectrum is very wide, and I think in some ways very unhelpfully so, as the behaviour and prognosis for individuals is very variable. Hopefully as our understanding of the disorder increases we will be better able to differentiate treatment and improve outcomes.

sorry but no, no, no. Even very high functioning people with autism have a) recognisable structural brain changes (would you say we were all a little bit Alzheimers because we forget where our keys are now and then) and b)very real problems with daily life. I know adults, with children, who live independently who have to remind themselves that other people don't know what they are thinking - a normally developing child develops that skill by age 4 (theory of mind).

I would question how much understanding of autism that specialist has to be honest. I know Baron-Cohen's work is ooften portrayed in the popular press as being along those line (autistics are just a bit more "male" than the rest of us) but that is not what his research is about. It's not really about blurring the lines.

I hate the way that the idea seems to be spreading that autism is all about being a little bit geeky and liking to spend time alone. It just isn't. For starters that view suggests that it is behavioural, rather than neurological- and leaves people not even realising that the behavioursa that you see with autism are often due to a miswired/unreliable sensory processing system. For example I'd refuse to walk on grass if I couldn't see where the ground is- autistic or not.

Nooka this isn't a go at you- it's something I've seen said more and more, and it worries me. Not so much for my son- because he's severe enough that no-one will ever question whether or not he is disabled, but it does worry me when I see friiend's high functioning children. I know of one, maybe 2 who will have to live independently and I think its important that people realise that there is something very different about them. Otherwise they are asked to do things they can't manage and you're back to the equivalent of telling someone in a wheelchair that they could walk if only they tried harder.

One of the kids I teach has Aspergers, he is very high functioning and exceptionlaly bright. He is is a class with very nice, exceptionaly bright kids. The way his mind worsd is about as much like theirs as a kipper to a beef steak. And he is as close to 'normal' as it gets with ASD.

He is just hard wired in an utterly different way to the rest of his peers. And nice as they are, they sometimes find it hard to cope with some of his behavious.

He has coped astonishingly well.....thanks to Jimjams and MN I have built a good working relationship with this boy and he now trusts me. So when he is utterly driven to get the answers to his wildly complex questions he can now wait until the end of the lesson.

At the end of break one time (when I had to explain most of the sixth form studies of photosynthesis ) he said, 'I just cant stop asking questions miss, I have to know the answer' To which I replied that I sometimes feel the same, knowing that my drive to know and his are totaly different.

My son is quirky, and a bit of an oddbod, but is NT. There is a world of a difference, and I hope that I didn't insult JJ