OH God. My kids have just behaved horrifically at their friends house. I'm mortified, how do we avoid same behaviour next time, so I don't die of shame?

[geraldinetheluckygoat]

Breif background: My ds1 (5) is best friends with a little boy at school who's mum I've got fairly friendly with too. She often asks us for coffee after school, on a friday. We chat, the kids play, its nice. The mum is very very kind and giving and tends to lavish gifts on us, little things like sweets for the kids, she seems to like sending us off with food and is very generous. I dont know if its a cultural thing (shes Croatian) or if its a personality thing, but its extended to the little boy wanting to give my boys something lile a little figure or other small toy. I think they are just like that, and are probably like it with everyone. For my part I take cakes or whatever round, and last time they came here I gave her little boy a little lego kit as we had lots and he liked it.

Fast forward to today, when we are leaving, ds1 has a massive tantrum about wanting a bionicle. He really really went for it. I obviously said no he couldnt have it as it belonged to his friend and that that was not the way to get things anyway. Then the little boys said "I want you to have it here, take it" and I said I didnt want him to have it as he was being utterly horrid. I tried to explain to the mum that I didn't want him to have it as he would think that having a tantrum was the way to get things (also its just utterly wrong, obviously to try to take your mate's toys). So we had a huge kicking, hitting fit "I hate you mummy" tantrum leaving the house, he was ROARING at the top of his lungs. then he calmed down a little bit, and the mum appears with THE TOY and gave it to him and said she will be very sad if he doesnt take it. She said the boy didnt like the toy particularly anyway, but thats not the point. Now I feel the whole episode has reinforced his belief that if he is vile enough he will get toys at this person's house. To make matters worse, this little boy and his mum are probably the most lovely people ever!!

It was very awkward. Plus ds2 was drinking it all in and trying it on too (he's 3). I haven't let ds1 have the toy, and haven't let him watch telly since we got home and hes gone straight to bed after dinner. Ive explained why im dissapointed with the behavour, and tried to get him to look at it from the boys perspective ("how would you feel if I gave him your favorite toy"). He said he wiould be sad if he had to give away his toys. but then as soon as his dad came in, he wanted to show him the bloody bionicle, as if he was really pleased he'd got it!!

HOW do I get through to him that this is not acceptable, and that he cant do it again?? What would you do? I know he's only five, but he does understand that he's been naughty and I really feel horrified at him doing this next time we visit!!

Have I been too harsh? Not harsh enough? I feel like my judgement has been marred by my embarrasement of how he behaved tbh. Please don't flame me, I dont think my nerves can take it!!

Don't panic, I think most mums of 5 year olds go through this a some point (hope so anyway!)You handled it well, speak to the mum and give back the toy after the boys go into school on monday.

Other Mum was very naughty here but you handled it well. Under no circumstances should your DS have the toy though and he is old enough to know why it has been given back.

I think what you're doing is right - you couldn't offend the mum as she clearly wanted to do something nice (despite your DS's charming behaviour), and you've not given your DS the toy and have punished him beyond that.

I would also make him take the toy back next time you go over there, and say "thank you for lending me the toy. Sorry I was naughty"

Maybe take her something (flowers or something) to reiterate how appalled you are at his behaviour.

yes I agree that giving the toy back is the right thing to do, but she was so appalled that I wouldnt initially take it, that I don't want to offend her! I have told DS that he must appologise for being rude to both mum and boy on monday. I wondered about getting her ds a small but desirable toy for my ds to give to the little boy?

I know this sounds pathetic, but I am worried that if we give THE TANTRUM TOY back, my ds will be a total git again and it will become even more of a "no give it back/no we want you to have it" wrangle which will be hideous. I could give it back without ds1 present but a)that defeats the object and b) I know she wont accept it!! She was utterly lovely about the whole thing and was more worried that I was so mortified I think. ugh.

I had something similar with Ds and a friend's DS. We came to an arrangement where the boys would swap a toy every time they played and then swap back next time. Youcould try that in future.

For now I would talk to your friend and explain why you don't want your DS to get whatever he fancies.

swapping toys is a great idea! Maybe I will get ds to select something to give on monday and then they can swap back when we are next there or they here?

Thanks everyone for the nice messages,im mildly less horrified as the evening goes on...

How good is her English? Can you explain to her why you didn't want him to have it (even if she and her son really weren't that fussed about it and would have given it away gladly) as he had in effect demanded it and tantrummed until he got it? Try and speak to her when the children aren't there - on the way home from school drop off perhaps?

her English is pretty good, she thinks its not very good, but its more confidence I think, we sometimes come to a word she doesnt know but we can have a conversation witout much problem. I think she would not hear of having the toy back. I think the best bet is to get ds to return it quitely and to say thank you for letting him borrow it. Perhaps I will give him some jobs to do around the house to earn the possibility of getting his own bionicle through good behaviour.
He is under threat of very dire consequences if this type of tantrum ever happens again when we visit them. I will remind him of this before we go next time.

I feel you pain, mine does the same. Throwing a chancey fit, not unusual with my DS of the same age, esp after a long day at school. I prob wouldn't make him give the toy back as he was obviously given it as a present. As i wasn't there, and believe me i have my patience tested royally at times too, i don't know if the early bedtime was too harsh. Perhaps a wee bit?

I def put toy away for now - you could go totally hardass and say 'this is going to be a present for the next boy or girl who comes over to say thank you for coming'. And sit back and enjoy the fireworks...

I would either skip going for a week and let DS know why (ie because he was being an arse last time)or read the riot act before going again, with clear consequences if the same behaviour occurred e.g. no t.v./early bed again BUT as you did it this time you should be well ahead of the learning curve

i see you're reading my mind geraldine

haha we have the same son, it seems, praps we should get together and let them out tantrum each other, maybe they'll just get utterly bored of it and decide to be angelic for a "challenge"! it was his first day back in yr1 today. I think he probably was very tired and we left on dinner time, so hungry too. always a catalyst for hideous behaviour. But still....

DS is absolutely unbearable when he's tired or hungry, and a combination of both is very hard going! I wouldn't worry about going back, esp as he's normally so good. These things happen

I would sit your son down and explain to him that the toy has to go back and that the mummy was being too kind by letting him take it home. That he's behaviour was unacceptable and that throwing a tantrum will NOT get him what he wants. Never mind if he throws a hissy fit, he'll just have to get over it. Then I would hand the toy back and gently explain to the mum why you have done it. Good Luck

Wot Madamesin said. There is no way you should allow him to keep the toy.

ok thanks for all the advice. Ive told him he's going to give the toy back and say sorry. Also we have a star chart now, and he has to do some jobs to help around the house and earn a number of stars through good behaviour, as well as graciously give the toy back. If he manages all this without a tantrum, I'll get him his own bionicle, which he will have earned by being good, instead of by having a tantrum. I want him to understand that if there is something he wants, he needs to tell me, and together we can figure out if he can have one (put it on christmas list/save up/look for second hand whatever). I wish hed just told me he loved the look of the bloody thing and could he have one, and I would have said "well lets see how much they are/look for one on ebay" or whatever!!