Does my DS have learning difficulties?

[HantsPants]

DS is 3 yrs 6 mths, born at 32 weeks with a severe hypoxic brain injury. He has done brilliantly and the doctors told us to expect a normal outcome on due date. His fine and gross motor skills just fine, walking, running, kicking balls and can make contact between tennis ball and racquet.

Had severe speech delay of 18 months diagnosed last December but delay now only 8 months according to test conducted by SALT 2 days ago. Virtually no speech at Christmas and now talking like 3 year old. Potty training proving very challenging. We have the ww OK but the poo department is a disaster, DS just not getting it.

Head of his Nursery thinks that he does not have learning difficulties but DH is pessimistic and thinks he will not cope in mainstream education and has learning diffs. Just had another huge row about it with him telling me I am in denial. We have a developmental assessment at local hospital tomorrow. I would rather spend time at the dentist having my teeth drilled.

Question is: if he has caught up 10 months of speech delay in 8 months, that's good, right? He will get faecal continence eventually, right? Is it wishful thinking to think that Head of Montessori nursery who has long experience with SN children and has observed him over last 4 terms is right about him not having learning difficulties?

Why does your DH think that he will have learning difficulties? Is it just the speech and potty training?

I think that the potty training sounds completely normal, at 3.6 lots of children havent got it.

I expect that the head of the nursery would probably be more exoerienced in knowing about childrens usual development than your DH, and also is not emotionally involved in the situation.

Hopefully the result of the developmental assessment will be something that you can both have confidence in.

HantsPants it's so very hard to answer your question without seeing and knowing your DS. I agree it does all sound very positive and especially after such a difficult start to life.

Tomorrow's assessment will give you the views of some professionals who see lots of children who may or may not have learning diffiuclties, but don't forget that as his parents, you know him best. The head of your nursery probably has got a good idea as to whether or not your DS has learning difficulties, having had such a lot of experience, but only educational psychologists/speech therapists etc.. are actually qualified to judge.

I guess if it was me (and I work with pupils in schools with severe learning difficulties), I would try to think that it is good that he is having an assessment early so that if intervention is needed, it will be provided when he is young with the highest chance of success. Then I'd have a large glass of red wine in the evening and probably cry, whether the outcome is positive or not! Some professionals in my field seriously underestimate the stress that such appointments and related concerns/fears put on parents.

I wish you and your son a successful trip tomorrow where he shows what he can do and where any difficulties are picked up so that he can get support if needed. Come back and tell us how you get on if you feel like it.

Maybe your DH is trying to let you down gently, and has absolutely no idea of the level of SN which is quite common in MS schools nowadays. I would recommend my DCs primary as certainly able to cope even if your DS didn't continue his fabulous progress.

Maybe your DH needs some family counselling about why he is so negative and ignoring people with experience. My DS is pretty much NT was awful at learning faecal continence.

Listen to the doctors, and do get as much help as you can for your son to go to mainstream school. It is much easier to let go of help he doesn't need than to get new support.

Good luck.

Is DS your only child?

Lots of little boys find potty training difficult. It doesn't mean that they are stupid. Some children just take slightly longer to develop.

I think that your DH has to realise that special ed has a lot of disadvantages.

Children are very sheltered and in many cases do not have the opportunities that main stream education offers. For example many special schools do not do GCSE. 3.6 years old is very young to decide that a child will not be capable of GCSEs at 16.

Special schools have the advantage of smaller classes and (sometimes) less bullying.

I think you have to see what the paediatrian thinks. Or maybe you can ask for a referal to an educational psychologist.

HantsPants, your DH could be right and the teacher right. Children can have learning difficulties in one specific area, and develop typically in others. Or they can have a slight delay.

It sounds very positive indeed about the SALT issues. My DD1 has a brain malformation, and when she was 3.0 she had a delay of 7 months. By 4.0 the delay was 12 months. So rather than closing the gap, hers has widened.

DH thinks DS has LD because of speech and language delay and potty training. No problems elsewhere so global developmental delay ruled out. Autism also ruled out.

However, DH something of shocking intellectual snob who takes view that anybody who can't get into Cambridge University has LD. DH is also a hospital consultant. He has SN baggage though as his sister has profound learning diffs.

We have had numerous assessments at Imperial College NHS Trust all generally very postive.

When I read with DS and talk to him I feel really positive about his development (eg counting to 20, playing age appropriate games) although his speech is not as good as other children his age, particularly girls. But his rate of improvement is great catching up 10 months in 8 months.

I hate these appts because DS knows he is being assessed (again) and can throw the mother of all tantrums. Also doctors always very careful and cautious about prognosticating.

Thanks for all your thoughts, ever helpful and supportive MNers.

Remember that alot of people look at their child at 3 and a half and cannot believe they will ever be ready for school. I know I did and he has been fine

Trying to be Mary Poppins: we also have DD of 6 who is total little girlie swot. Of course we are delighted that she is doing so well (reading age approx 8.5) but this means DS suffers from unfair comparison. She is amazing talker and I have to stop her answering DS's questions for him.

BTW your daughter sounds typical for a girl (and a big sister at that). One of my DDs had to be told to allow her brother to get a word in edgeway after an appointment about his stammer came to the conclusion that she was at least half the problem.

Maybe your DH doesn't know about the cases where people do recover amazingly from brain injuries www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3294761/Girl-with-half-a-brain-becomes-fluent-in-two-languages.html

Update. We did hospital appointment this morning. Paediatrician thinks he is unlikely to have serious learning diffs and will cope in mainstream school. Great! I took along DS's drawing and paintings plus verbatim record of what he has been saying plus learning journal from nursery. Very useful as DS was taciturn and not willing to engage brilliantly. Reassuringly, I heard those glorious words 'age appropriate' a number of times.

DH still not convinced. Another row about it. Suspect DH needs therapy to deal with his own baggage over his severely SN sister. Hell will freeze over before that happens though.

Feeling relieved, thanks for all support.

I'm pleased that the hospital appointment went well. Its great news that your lo will be capable of mainstream education.

I think that your DH needs to accept that your son will not get a place at a state special school, even if you wanted it.

There are plenty of people who are neither special school material nor oxbridge material. They lead happy and productive lives as I am sure your son will.

Delighted to hear your good news hants. Have just read this post, and was going to add my own experience of DS2, who had huge speech and language delays and took an age to potty-train.

He is now a bright and lively seven year-old, achieving excellent grades in school and very popular with his peers.

It sounds like your DS has made wonderful progress, and you must be hugely relieved by the paediatrician's assessment.

BTW, my DH was always incredibly pessimistic about DS's abilities, and we used to have massive rows also. It's only taken four years for him to change his mind!

Hope your DS continues to make such wonderful progress.

I have a DD who also has hypoxic brain injury. She has some physical difficulties but her learning ability hasn't yet been questioned - she is 3.4 yrs now.

I do understand completely about the long term worry about outcome. No professional will ever give you a clean bill of health either IME. Could your DH be suffering from PTSD - could be affecting his judgement of the situation?

Sounds like your DS is doing great though - you have been very fortunate.

I agree, it sounds as though the issue is with your dh, not with your ds's learning abilities, and this is very understandable given his own experiences, but also very sad for you.

It is hard if your child had a traumatic birth and is known to have brain injuries, because every delay is questioned and dealt with as though it might have been caused by the brain injury, even though this may not be the case. But it sounds as though your ds's delays are now so minor that he is well in advance developmentally of many children his age who did not have a traumatic birth. You are right to celebrate this success, rather than look pessimistically into the future and talk yourself into believing that he will nevertheless fall behind again, develop new issues and have lifelong problems. The future is uncertain for everyone, so you just have to live in the present, and at present he is doing phenomenally well.

Such reassuring wisdom as ever from the glorious sisterhood.

Oliviacrumble it's great to hear an identical profile to our DS. Because of his early major problems and prematurity I have an age of 7 pencilled in for him to be fully comfortable within his peer group and am so delighted to hear of your experience. What is it with DHs? This pessimism is wearying but that seems to be their way of coping with the potential loss of ambition that DS will be playing football for England or reading medicine at Cambridge.

Mintyfresh, glad to hear your DD is doing so well. You are right, we are incredibly lucky. Given his dismal start, we are lucky that he didn't die a few hours or days after he was born and that he does not have a serious impairment. Most families are nothing like as fortunate and if I think back to the few desperate days after he was born, at that time, I would have given everything we owned for the outcome that we now have. You are also completely right about no doctor ever giving you a clean bill of health. The most positive thing they will say is 'that's encouraging' and no more.

Rabbitstew.. yes! DS is quite a stubborn little boy and I find myself wondering whether that is anything to do with his brain injury.