how do I deal with my violently defiant 4 year old?

[colditz]

He's 4 years and 4 months, and he has always (ahem) "known his own mind".

He gets to a point where, if he doesn't want to do something that he needs to do (get undressed, brush his teeth), he starts screaming and kicking things. Then when I try to stop him, he starts kicking and hitting me.

I want to derail him before he gets to this point. I also want him to bloody well do as he's told, but I'd settle for a lack of violent behavior.

he absolutely HATES being held or cuddled at all when he is tantrumming. What he actually wants to do is run around away from me.

He is at the point where my 7 year old, who has ASD and ADHD, is staring with shock, and so is everyone else who sees him.

Isolate in his room?

Drag Pick up rugby-ball style, take to room, shut door and hold it shut for suitable length of time until he calms?

I have started doing that but it very often happens at bedtime when Ds1 wants to go to bed, and can't because his brother has been screaming and flailing around for 45 minutes.

honestly, he did it til half past nine the other night, I was ready to skin him wrung out

The triggers are generally tiredness, which isn't ever resolved because he insists on being awake whenever his brother is (and his brother sleeps about 9 hours a night on a good night)

Or

not being able to do the things his brother does.

Just throwing out ideas that ds, who is prone to tantrummy tempers, has responded to:

• count down to the task he needs to do. In 5 minutes you'll need to brush your teeth so make sure you finish..", "2 mins", "1 min"

• offer a small reward, e.g. after you've brushed your teeth, choose a book you want us to read

When trying to head ds off at the pass we use 123 magic which he responds to well and takes out the exhaustion of it all.

We've used 123 Magic all of d2's life, as I used it with ds1 (for whom it works fabulously)

he just screams "STOP! COUNTING!" then starts kicking.

I give 5, 2 and one minute warnings - they really don't seem to register (have just given the 2 minute warning for a bath!). He agrees, but is still just as shocked, appalled and angry when I do warn him as when I don't.

I have tried offering stories, and letting him choose, and generally he will scream "I'M NOT HAVING A STORY BECAUSE I'M NOT GOING TO BED!"

he still has poo accidents, which I do treat as accidents but am not entirely convinced are completely accidental....

He seems so very ngry with me. Needless to say, he is not like this at his dad's.

You have my sympathies, it is SO draining isn't it? My ds1 was like this. so bloody minded it made my blood boil!! He's six in march and actually has been loads more reasonable since going to school...

things that have helped with him

• make sure he has heard and understood your time warnings and isnt just agreeing to keep you happy.....get down to his level and ask him what you just said and what will happen if he comes nicely/has a fit.
• Before a trigger situation ie getting dressed, say "ds, in five minutes im going to ask you to get dressed" "what are we doing in five minutes, ds?" then remind him how you want him to do it - "how do I want you to do it? What do I not want you to do" then go over the top with praise if he does as you ask.
• Have a clear consequence at the start of any nonsese. Move time out area to another area of the house that wont disturb his big bro?
• I bet if you sort the bed time out, a lot of the behavour will sort out. Mine are monstrous if tired. It will be a few days of hell doing it, but it will be worth it? Could you do the whole rapid return thing?

GOOD LUCK!!

He sounds like my ds1 who is 4 and a half. I feel like I have tried all kinds of things and that nothing works but to be really honest, when I am calm and appear happy, he is a different child. You sound much calmer than me already though! I adopted a policy of no shouting (it was great, was a whole day til I broke it) and he was so much nicer to me. I'm still trying that, with lots of lapses when I'm at my wits end.

Does it all fall to you? Are you amicable with his Dad? Just wondering if you could do a two pronged approach, even if living in separate houses. Even though I do whinge about my PILs, they are a positive influence on both my dcs with regards to behaviour.

Just remembered sometimes acknowleding ds' upset eg. "I know you do..." and sympathy laid on with a trowel seems to soothe him, especially if he thinks something is unfair.

But I feel your pain, it's really hard. Ds is better now since going to school, but has just had a meltdown over a game he couldn't do.

I found 123 Magic completely ineffectual with DS1 until I explained it properly. ie. I am going to count to 3, which will give you a chance to stop doing the naughty thing. If you stop doing the naughty thing you don't have to do the time out. If you don't stop doing the naughty thing YOU ARE CHOOSING to spend 4 minutes in time out.

As with all things, kids-wise, I really struggled with exactly how consistent I had to be. No giving in, no being wheedled etc.