Does anyone elses toddler get so overstimulated they can't wind down to sleep

[TheLemur]

My DS is 2.11 and if he's had a day or 2 of above average stimulation he finds it really hard to drop off at night. For example, as it's school hols at the mo so my childminder has her eldest son (6) at home. I think this must really stimulate DS as this week he just can't calm himself down enough to go to sleep

Usually he's an angel at bed time (7.30) but too much stimulation means he just lies there awake (kicking the wall, talking to himself etc) for a couple of hours til he finally nods off. it's like he'd just too wound up/overwrought/overtired to go to sleep

It's far far worse if he hasn't had enough physical exercise, infact after a recent holiday where we spent an entire day travelling he didn't go to sleep til 10pm for 3 nights on the trot! He was hellish in the daytime. (He doesn't nap btw)

I've tried earlier bedtimes which helps a bit - but I don't pick him up from childcare til 6 so it's never earlier than 7.

Other children must have this problem too? So how do you cope? It's not only that it makes DS stroppy for days on end but also that I don't 'switch off' in the evening til he's asleep so it's infringing on my time too.

Mine has this problem, he is only 15-months but it is so easy to tell when he has been over-stimulated. He just gets manic around bed time. I try and chill out about it because if I have had a hairy day too, The 2 usually coincide, I cant sleep and wind down either. So we just extend the bedtime routine for a while, string out the quiet bedtime playing and stories, play wind down finger puppets with torches on the wall while lying down. OH and I do occassionally lie down and model calming down and lying down and listening to the music peacefully on the floor to help him wind down. I don't know how this will work when mine i as old as yours, but I definately agree that over-stimulation needs to be handled and not ignored and the routine has to adapt to accomodate it.

Yep, same here I often have this problem with my 2.10 year old DS and I too resent it encroaching on my evening after a day at work and can't relax until he's asleep and I can enjoy my wine! I can't really offer much advice, sometimes what I do works and sometimes it doesn't. I just read the sleep chapter in a parenting book called parenting your spirited (read stubborn and strong willed!!) child, which may or may not apply to your LO, but it is worth a read if you think it does. It recommends as TurtleAnn says extending the bedtime routine, don't underestimate the time it takes them to wind down. And lights low, music etc helps. I have also started rocking my DS a little before he lays down, and staying with him, and in a very dull and boring voice going through the whole day in minute detail, sometimes ending with an extremely long story about a rubbish lorry (his favourite thing) going to the tip. Sometimes he is asleep by the end of this. I found if I was leaving him he would be awake for 2 hours sometimes even if he had not napped. This particular book also recommends not undervaluing the nap. Does your CM include some 'siesta time' in the afternoon even though he doesn't nap? On his own maybe in a quiet situation just reading or chilling out? I think the light nights have also been a factor in the bedtimes, and a MNer called Angeldog posted about a sleep regression that happens between age 2 and 3 on a sleep thread on here recently which it might be worth you searching for and reading through, it definitely sounded like what my DS is going through. Good luck, it is hideous the bedtime thing!!

I have a 19mo, so younger than yours, but she is very prone to getting wound up and overexcited.

About at least 1/2 hour before bath & bed we turn off, or at least turn right down, any music or TV, so the house is quiet. There are no noisy stories, toys or horseplay after this, it's all gentle quiet activities such as doing stickers or reading books.

DD always has a bath every evening whether she needs one or not as it's part of her wind-down routine. We try to make the splashing and playing happen sooner rather than later in the bath, so she doesn't get wound up again.

As soon as she's out of the bath we take her straight into the nursery which is ready prepared with the blackout curtains closed and just have a night light on, no overhead lights, and give her her milk whilst we dry her and dress her for bed.

Then there's 5 min quiet cuddle which she has usually dropped off by the end of.

Hope any part of this helps!

Thanks all. He's been like this ever since I can remember - as a baby he'd regularly have to cry himself to sleep for 20-30 mins (I felt awful leaving him to it but that was the quickest way!) Were yours like this too?

To be honest, when he's overtired I tend to rush the bedtime routine to get him in bed asap and from what you are all saying that is not helpful. I guess he needs longer bath/stories on days like this rather than shorter and for me not to be stressed about getting him down. I will try stringing things out next time and see how it goes. It's difficult though isn't it because you can't always predict when this is going to happen!

I'll search for that thread and the book bondgirl, thanks. I don't think he has quiettime at the CM's, I know he does at nursery though.

I always do bath then story in bed in his darkened room (blackout curtains) so he knows his routine but I will try to make it more low key on nights when he seems overwrought, thanks

I like to think this is happening because he's so intelligent he's always alert and taking everything in

Ds now 5 was like this and still is often. We used the TV, half an hour before bed was the only thing that would actually get him to sit still! He's still the same, the more exciting it is, even if he's shattered he'll kleep going full speed until some kind of collapse. He's v v bright and has no trouble concentrating etc. Just fantastically energetic.

Prob not true in your case but I did discover at that age, 2-3, that our nanny (Share) was still giving him/enforcing a nap which didn't help at all. And also that she was reluctant to "exercise" him during the day. So he was having fun but in one place, not running around in the park etc, which he absolutely needs. Now he's older it's clearer for me, he needs a good 1/12 twice a day of physical exercise if at all possible and if only once then a good two hour thrash. When I look back, it's clear that pattern has alwyas existed, it's always been the case since he was 18 months old. Could you chat to the childminder and find out how much he's exercised in open spaces?

Thanks stillbumbling, an interesting perspective. The CM excercises him brilliantly - he walks on the school run with her plus there is usually another outdoor walk to feed the ducks/go round the lake or a playground session. It's nursery where he's outside but not really exercising 3 days a week but there's not a lot I can do about that. It's slightly alarming to think that this may still be happening when he is 5!

I have tried your suggestions but I'm still having problems I'm afraid.

Last night I took an extra half an hour over the wind down, read 2 long stories, left the room at 8 and he still lay there awake til 9.45. He also pinged awake at 6.50 this morning when our neighbour went to work (he usually wakes about 8) so he's had 9 hours sleep instead of his usual 12. So this morning was a nightmare. I was tired and he was playing up, hitting etc. God it was awful and I'm sure he'll be awake til 10 again tonight. I have been in tears about it a lot today, I just feel so helpless I don't know what to do.

Thinking about it he has got a lot on at the mo - moving up a room in nursery, childminders son is at hers, has just potty trained, has just been on holiday, had my parents here for the weekend etc. I spoke to my childminder this morning and she thinks it's mixing with the older lot at nursery that's overstimulating him but I can't really do anything about that.

I just feel so guilty that I can't sort this out and that I'm at work so I can't give him lots of exercise and a calm environment when he needs it. My parents are supposed to be taking him on holiday to Wales next week but I just can't see how that can happen when he's already at meltdown point.

Please if anyone has any advice I'd really appreciate it

Just reading your post with sympathy. Sounds horrible for him and you - as you say, a lot is going on for him at the moment so hopefully this will sort itself out when it all settles down a bit. Your bedtime routine sounds ace, the same as ours, I find the story in the dark (nightlight only) before bed really helps dd1 calm down and process the day (the story she asks for is usually me just repeating her day back to her).

The only idea I had probably isn't too helpful, but I know when I get too wired to turn my brain off, then camomile tea and carbs (eg milky cereal and a banana) helps. Maybe offer him another snack after bathtime? Is he too young for camomile tea?!

Just reading your post with sympathy. Sounds horrible for him and you - as you say, a lot is going on for him at the moment so hopefully this will sort itself out when it all settles down a bit. Your bedtime routine sounds ace, the same as ours, I find the story in the dark (nightlight only) before bed really helps dd1 calm down and process the day (the story she asks for is usually me just repeating her day back to her).

The only idea I had probably isn't too helpful, but I know when I get too wired to turn my brain off, then camomile tea and carbs (eg milky cereal and a banana) helps. Maybe offer him another snack after bathtime? Is he too young for camomile tea?!

Sorry, not sure why that happened!

Thanks lukewarm (great name btw) for your sympathy! I hope he gets out of this rut soon as it's really doing my head in. DH says I just need to relax and I know he's right but it's very difficult.

I hadn't considered diet actually. DS usually has a snack when he comes home from childcare but I hadn't given any thought to what it is... infact it's usually fruit so I may give the carbs thing a try. I'm not sure he'd be up for camomile tea but I will try warm milk (he went straight from breast to cold milk so we've never had a bedtime bottle or anything).

Thanks so much for the input, it is greatly appreciated

Hi - just wanted to say we are in the same position with DS (2.5) at the moment. For the last month or so he has been taking at least an hour to go to sleep - similar things - kicking the wall, rolling around in duvet, biting the bed!

I too have run out of ideas and hoping its just a phase as I am starting to dread the evenings so you are not alone! I have cut his daytime nap from around 90 mins to 30-45 mins and that helped at first but not now, even though he looks shattered by bedtime, he is still playing up!