any help suggestions please - end of tether with 5 yr old ds

[Mummy2TandF]

Hello all, It has been AGES since I posted on here but have popped in regularly to read.

However, I really need opinions on how to deal with my 5yr old ds.

He can be such a loving little boy and is very sensitive deep down, but his behaviour is getting out of hand and I seem powerless atm....He is extremely defiant - anything he is asked to do he give an answer of "NO", he shouts and screams and pushes things, slams doors just because he has been told no - his behaviour seems to be like toddler temper tantrums and I have tried everything I can think of to try to help .... I have punished, ignored, praised good behaviour (all ove a period of time in order to be consistant) but he reduces me to tears almost everyday (not so he sees though)

I understand that children go through stages but I feel that his agression and defiance goes beyond normal and even now at 5yrs old he is very strong - I need to nip this in the bud before he is able to overpower me

For anybody who remembers me, I apologise for not posting for so long but life has been very hectic and am just getting back on an even keel

I remember you.

I hope your doing ok.

I don't have a lot of advice only that my DS1 is 5 and is exactly the same.
I just try to ingore anything that isnt hurting anyone else and anything i do have to punish i tend to remove him from the situation into a quiet area and leave him there, i dont talk to him or anything i just leave him until he is calm or for 5 mins which ever is soonest and then calmly tell him why he was removed and ask for an apology.
I am really consistant wich is hard but i think it is slowley getting through to him.

Your children have been through a lot (if your who i think you are) so it may be an outburst from that.

I lost my Mum in April and my children saw her daily and absolutley worshiped her and thier behavious has been worse since then.

I guess thats not a lot of help to you, just wanted you to know your not alone.

Thank You, yes they have been through a lot (although 3 years ago now) DS has only got worse in the last couple of months - he has always been a "challenging" child but things just seem to have escalated lately... He is also so big and strong to remove him from the situation is proving very hard as I am unable to lift him and he just throws himself on the floor screaming he can also be very nasty to dd (3yrs) - am hoping it is just a stage and it will pass but would still welcome any miracle solutions. Ignoring doesn't work as his behaviour gets worse and worse until I have to intervene (sp?)

Oh dear. Sorry i couldnt be of any help. Im sure someone will be along with mirical parenting skills.

You have been a help - just knowing that I am not the only one going through it helps x Thank You

Hi there

Not sure what has gone on, but I am guessing at a bereavement.
My DS is very similar to yours also, and its so hard. Like you he is too big for me to physically remove him, but he is now responding to being sent to his room a lot better. We have also bargained out some behaiviors and results and written them down and that has helped

Have you read ' how to listen so children talk'? Very good read

Also we had a bereavement also as my dad (and my DS' idol) died 2 months ago and my granddad is terminally ill and has about 10-14 days left, so I think that it has a huge impact on them. I was told that 5 is thew worst age for it, so it could be that your DS is 'reliving' (for want of a better word) past events now also

BTW, when he has you at the in tears every day point, I really REALLY good tactic that Parentline Plus gave me was to get some shiny beads or pennies or stones or something- even bits of pasta- and put some in a bowl, then very time he made me smile or feel good or proud to move one accross

Even on our absolute worst days, I moved over 4 or 5, and that made me realise that he WASNT all bad after all and that anyone who made me smile 5 times a day was pretty awesome, and it stopped me focussing on all the bad stuff, as I could sit and remember all the little nice things too

Might help you xx

Pretending to be calm helps you feeling calmer.

I think ignoring, or elaborate praise when eh does soemthing good, are a waste of time.

When my DS2 who is 5 acts up like that, I tell him his behaviour is unacceptable and send him to his room. I take him up there myself if needed.

If he`s done something anughty I tell him I am cross or disappointed and he cannot come down unless I tell him, a few minutes is usually enough.

If he is just being tantrummy about nothing through tiredness, I send him up too, tell him I am not cross but do not like the NOISE. He can come down again when he is quiet.

I find that pretending to be calm really helps.

I have tried the pretending to be calm but it doesn't really work

He doesn't listen if I am talking to him calmly and just reapeats random words like "potato" while I am talking .... If I feel he has been listening I ask him what I have just said and he replies "don't know"

As an example (to see if anybody can relate or if I need to have some other help)

We went to his friends party at the weekend and he got a balloon on a stick as a gift, he has kept it in his bedroom since but brought it down to play with today....he was tapping it on the fireplace gently and it burst! Well all hell broke loose - he screamed as if he was being attacked, and when I said "oh dear never mind darling balloons do pop, maybe we could get another one" he screamed even more (no words just screaming) he then ran to the other side of the room and kicked my sideboard, when I asked him not to he did it again, I then told him that was unacceptable and that if he would calm down we could discuss why he got so angry ........... he then said to me "it's a stupid F*ing balloon anyway" - I honestly have NO IDEA where he has heard words like this and was not impressed (I don't even like the word stupid!!!) - so I took him out of the room and sat him on the stairs where he screamed, and screamed and screamed (when I say scream, there are no tears and it is sort of an angry growl) I explained that this was not on (in no uncertain terms) and that when he had calmed down we could talk about why he reacted in this way - he carried on for at least half an hour dispite me trying to talk it through with him, trying to cuddle him, to which he pushes me away.

He eventually calmed down and it was as if nothing had happened - it seems to be a temper issue but I really need to sort this out before he is too big for me to deal with.

Sorry this is long but I think I need help

Not sure that I can be of much help, but my 5 yo DD has recently started to have "tantrums"/rages when something doesn't go her way. I had really thought the tantrums were behind us. She has been much easier to reason with over the last year. I used to understand that she got frustrated at age 3-4, but she just seemsso defiant now. It's almost always triggered by her not getting her own way - wanting a packet of biscuits in the supermarket (with my Mum - poor thing!), getting told off after running off when at the park etc.

It's definitely a temper thing with DD too, you do wonder and hope that things will improve before they get any bigger.

I'm afraid I find it very difficult to keep calm sometimes, even though I know shouting just makes it worse!

I like DreamTeamGirl's idea of the beads etc. to remind you of the positives in the day, as she really is good company most of the time.

DD's had difficulties socially settling into school, so I suppose I should try to remember she's strugglying with her social skills at home sometimes too.

Pretending to be calm - I'm going to try.

Sorry I can't offer anything constructive.

Sounds like my 5yo DS on and off too. He's always been challenging but also like yours so sweet, funny, kind, confident but really sensitive too. I found his temper/short fuse increase in the last year - especially over not getting his own way or getting things wrong/finding things hard to do.

I found 1-2-3 Magic book pretty good as it very easy to implement, and aims to take the negative emotional aspect of of discipline. Worked wonders for my DS when I was at the crying most days stage...only have to use it rarely now.

Another thing I've majorly found is infusing in him that I am on his side - not by being his friend all the time, just that we're a team and I'm on his side. By not necessarily praising the pants off the good...as that can come across as a bit fake if you're doing it all the time. But by laughing, smiling, having fun, joking him around in the rest of the time when he's not being naughty. Sometimes letting stuff go...is whatever it is really that important - not pandering just choosing your battles? Is it me being unreasonable/having a bad day or is it him? And the 123 Magic book was big on forgiving and forgetting - not harbouring grudges or waiting around for him to make the next mistake - fresh slate each time. Easy to say....not always easy to implement obviously. I've also read that boys get a massive surge of testosterone at 5-6yo so some of this could be that...and not that you're a candidate for Supernanny (as I always worry about!).

5yo are hard work, aren't they? You kinda expect that it'll be easy street once they've turned 5 but when they're still such hard work just in a different way its so draining. Altho' I've heard teens are the worse....I run away, head over ears going 'lalala' when people tell me that though! This too shall pass...at some stage!

Thank You everyone, some great help here .... the more I think about it his "triggers" seem to be being told no, embarasement(sp?), hurting himself (I think through embarasement again) and frustration with not being able to do something therefore being dissapointed in himself.....I will continue to reinforce that I am here for him and on his side to support him and maybe buy that book aswell

It's nice to see I am not alone! - although as has been mentioned I have read that there is a great testoterone surge at this age, but even so the behaviour is not acceptable

Thank You all

Ooh...just had a thought - if its an aggression thing. I'm sure there's a book on Amazon (for kids) about dealing or understanding their anger or frustrations - but written as a story (not sure what its called though...helpful, aren't I!?). Sometimes its good to read things and they take it in more than if you're telling them. Or I've heard people talk about giving them a pillow/cushion to thump if they feel themselves getting frustrated. Also getting them to recognise/be able to verbalise what they're feeling - 'oh you sound frustrated' and showing that everyone gets frustrated sometimes but instead of blowing up do something else instead (tried this with my DS...if you get frustrated count to 10 quickly...it was quite disconcerting when I was talking about something and he'd suddenly start counting to 10 and I'd realise I was actually pissing him off! ). And absolutely still showing boundaries are there and unaccceptable behaviour is unacceptable....I think that in the end gives them a sense of security and helps them know where they stand.

DS just turned 5 is doing exactly all these things. Defiance and rage is enormous. I'm a total devotee of how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk. Can't recommend it highly enough.

123 Magic sounds good too, will add that to m library!

Things that get DS are - Unfairness, me being cross when to him it doesn't make sense or doesn't feel fair; embarrasment, embarassment; not getting his own way.

For the latter much of it is my fault. It's been the holidays and we went away for two weeks too and the rules have been totally up in the air. Total inconsistency so he's trying it on because all normal rules have been very flexible. Our first week back properly at home, just me and him is transofrming things.

OP - In the example you gave about the balloon, how to talk book would say firstly name the feeling. He was really shocked, suprised, frightened and massively disappointed that the balloon popped. You deal with those emotions first and don't ever, ever utter the words never mind! So you do a oh my god, what a shock, that really surprised me, that was so loud. You loved that balloon didn't you and must be very unhappy it burst. You looked after it all that time safely in your room. Then you move on from there.

The thing you did, which I totally did in a similar row the other day with my own DS, is the original upset got mixed up in subsequent issues. I'm afraid ours was in the park, and when he was already upset about one thing and after warning him 4 times I picked him up and took him home. He screamed, for the first time ever, I hate you I hate you I hate you all the way home in the car. It took us about an hour to get back to normal. He told me, the whole thing was my fault and that he was so furious this time because the whole thing had been unfair. and I'd made it way worse. He'd also been embarrassed by original incident and then me taking him away in the park. It was horrible for both of us. However, I did "win" the battle in the end, however unfair, by picking him up and taking him home. Four days ago now and things have improved immeasurably. It's all still going on, but the edge has gone, which is helping me use the how to talk tactics, which in turn is making things more manageable.

Great to be reminded about the testosterone surge. I'd forgotten that and it helps remind me it's a stage and not all my fault. Also huge reliefe to hear I'm not alone!

I'm astounded at some of this.

Since when did a 5 year old's judgement get taken into consideration!?

He's a small child - irrational at times, reactive and not at all sure why he's doing one thing over another!

Adults should behave like adults. We know best, we say what goes and if you don't firmly and without bargaining ensure that your child gets this message, he will run all over you because he knows he can exercise his own form of "control".

Congrats quavers
You have obviously raised perfect children who have never had any sort of development delay at all All of which is of course down to YOUR wonderful parenting

And of course your child/ children have never had to suffer a traumatising event or loss, or if the have they coped brilliantly Again no doubt because YOU are such a wonderful person.

Do you critisise late walkers/ late speakers as down to bad parenting too?

Wow - thanks for the accolades DTG

(yes, yes... I know you were being angry and sarcastic...)

I've no idea why you're bringing late walkers/late speakers into this - that's totally different. And I don't think I was accusing anyone of being a shit parent either, as your post would insinuate.

I thought we were talking about a 5 year old who is clearly pushing and testing the boundaries with his mum. Even if he has had some trauma in his little life, if he swears, screams and rages at his mum, and is not very firmly told that his behaviour is not on and won't be tolerated, it will become normalised for him. Kids need discipline and firm boundaries just as much as they need fun, stimulation, food and consistent loving from their parents.

Otherwise, the OP can look forward the happy day (in the not-too-distant future) when her DS turns round to her and says "Shut up Mum, what the fuck do you know".