Worried about DD1 [sad] (sorry if long)

[Gibbon]

I rarely start a thread but am worried about DD1 and am hoping for some reassurance from the wise MN collective.

DD1 is nearly 4 has always been a sensitive soul, not so much shy, but more quiet and thoughtful, the sort that rather be in the middle of things, is quietly watching with enjoyment or doing her own thing. (puzzle, book and the suchlike) Pre school and friends often comment on how sensitive she is and I have often found myself hoping she would assert herself more where other children are concerned as it breaks my heart that she is often the one that is picked on. I tell myself all normal for her age and children are children and it usually balances out over the next few years.

She has never bitten/hit lost her temper with us or other children and is far more likely to cry and get upset if she gets frustrated (this happens frequently and easily, more so lately)

Sorry for the long background but it leads up to my concerns.

DD2 was born 6 weeks go, DD1 was/has been very excited and seems to adore DD2. However I have noticed DD1's behaviour change over the last 2/3 weeks. I know the enormity of a sibling arriving affects most children's behaviour but DD1 seems to have manifested as anxiety and dark thoughts

She has always been sensitive to taste (fussy eater) and sound (extreme fear of hand dryers will cover her ears and cry in public toilets) these have gone through the roof the last few weeks, food especially and she has started saying all food is getting stuck in her throat and making her cough so she is eating very little. She also keeps asking me to check her mouth for bees/hair/other objects.

The thing that really concerns me is that she keeps making comments such as 'you can't poke a baby in the eyes can you mummy? you can't poke their eyes out' 'you can't pull their hands off can you mummy? that would not be nice would it' It's never said in a sinister way, very matter of fact but sometimes very dark all the same.

It's horrible to hear her say things like this and really hard to see her obvious anxiety and obsessiveness over the smallest thing

DD2 is a very laid back baby so DD1 is not missing out on attention/one one time.

I'm really worried about her

If you have got to the end of this epic post, thank you, any advice you can give will be truly appreciated.

Ok so, ds is about the same age and Im 35 weeks pregnant so we have been talking about babies etc too. Ds would definitely say things like 'you can poke a baby in the eye' etc, definitely. I just see it as exploring boundaries.

Ds can be quite shy but then completely boisterous if he's in a situation he's confident in. Is she confident etc around people she knows?

I have to say ds goes through phases of having a 'hair in his mouth' ; he doesnt, he just doesnt want to eat his dinner! He does get upset though about it. He doesnt like things gettingb stuck in his throat, like he wont eat spaghetti anymore for this reason. We just tell him not to worry about it and reassure him without going over the top iyswim? So a 'nope nothing there' and distraction.

Ds doesnt have the sounds fear thing but I know my nephew always has and still does at 4.5 (hand dryers, aeroplanes overhead etc terrified him) : I think its fairly common. Given that its got worse later maybe get her ears checked out for peace of mind? Thinking about it if she did have sore ears it could be making swallowing uncomfortable too.

I wouldnt be overly worried and you are very early days in the new sibling thing, even if DD2 is an easy baby (am not jealous ) the whole family dynamic has still changed and she isnt number 1 anymore iyswim?

You cant poke a baby in the eye !!

I was exactly like this as a child and my mother still says I was a bit 'different'. Thanks mum

I am not like it now but I do have some over anxious behaviours in some areas (adult relationships with men) a teeniest touch of OCD and am extremely perceptive and intuitive (which is a lovely thing and has proved very useful rather than destructive). I don't know about your DD so can only speak for me as an example having been very similar to what you describe in your child.

I used to 'choke' on food and got very, very thin.

I have no idea what made me like this or whether it is largely my character or whether I reacted to little things in my early childhood and these made me anxious. All I do know is that my father was very harsh and intolerant of my funny little behaviours (and the not so funny ones).

If I had to guess, I'd say you have a sensitive and hyper perceptive child who will be a pleasure to know as an adult but who will require bolstering and acceptance of her quirks. I think that's what I'd have liked and didn't really get. I just kept feeling odder and odder due to people's responses.

I used to FREAK about funny textures, esp. sand on me on holiday from a very, very early age.

I choked and gagged on the tiniest morsels of food.

I sought a lot of reassurrance and was quite incessant over some of these things.

I was a placid playmate but got upset over minute things and felt very very sad about tiny things which at the time truly upset me.

I had bad OCD as a teen and then somehow got a grip of myself as a young adult. I needed my parents to validate me as a child really and they didn't. They were loving but they definitely made me feel odd. I could have done without that.

Oh, and I developed twitchy things around age 8 or 9 and used to stretch my arm out repeatedly which my Dad always mentioned as did my mother and made me feel like crap.

So, after my cathartic ramble, I'd say try and turn a MEGA blind eye but also be very very sympathetic and comforting and find ways for your DD to feel in control of her environment. She is probably very able as I was, and that is quite scary. (I'm reflecting onto you a bit there but just in case it's apossibility).

I worked with a few children like this too and they were kind of afraid of themselves iyswim. Lots of consistent and loving boundaries helped in these cases and not too uch onus on achievement.

I'd do some reading on first born family positioning and also Elaine Aron's 'The Highly Sensitive Child' or some of her other titles based around the same topic. See here

Hope that helps a little but ignore my ramblings if it is way off the mark. :)

Waiting, thank you so much for replying

Made me feel better already to hear someone say 'don't worry'

Yes, like your DS, around people DD knows she is v confident. The exploring boundaries makes sense, had not thought of it like that.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply, feeling down about it all today.

BTW I am a born worrier and I wouldnt be worried so there

Have you heard of a book called the Highly Sensitive Child? We bought it after our third child was born, and the (now) middle one became very anxious and upset about little things and found it very helpful. We also had one called Our Baby which was about things like our baby can't use the potty, but I can etc etc

With regards to your concerns, I would set specific boundaries, such as "No you can't poke the baby in the eye" and also give her little jobs to do, like sticking down the tabs on the baby's nappy or fetching things for him or her. And could you ask her what she could eat which would make her mouth feel better? Sorry for slightly garbled post - no peace here til bedtime! - but your situation sounds very similar to ours a few weeks ago.

Oh hobbgoblin, thank you for taking the time to write such a helpful and insightful post.
Rang many a bell with me and I think this is part of me worrying so.

I have overcome my OCD now (well in the main) but took therapy to really beat it. I know that it started as a child and like you I always felt a bit out of sync. I felt and still feel things very deeply and I guess my fear is that I have sub consciously passed this onto DD1. I have been so determined that she would not have the weight of worry weighing her down in life and I think that is why seeing her so obviously anxious is so hard.

She has always had tendencies but since DD2 was born it has got way worse

Thanks for the reading recommendations, much appreciated

Thank you for the reply scootergrrrl, you mention the same book so it must be good

DD has been helping lots with the baby and seems to enjoy doing so and gives lots of kisses and cuddles. It's just the seemingly random comments that started to worry me.

She also says 'my brain told me to say it/do it' when I ask her why she said/did a certain thing.

Y'know what though Gibbon...you will know as well as I do that (if we are to allow ourselves a bit of praise here) we are sensitive, empathetic, kinder than kind people with a highly tuned intuition. That is GREAT in all kinds of situations so long as you teach your DD how to be confident about who she is. It does make you vulnerable in many types of relationships but I think only if you allow self doubt in.

The thing with boundaries is pretty fundamental I reckon: not only does she need firm boundaries to feel safe and less anxious, she also needs them in order to learn about setting them for herself in later life.

You having such awareness as a person with similar traits will help her avoid the pitfalls such as perfectionsim and low self esteem.

My parents were very low on praise, overly concerned with complacency (i.e. me developing it) and clearly uncomfortable with the degree of sensitivity I demonstrated. I think I could have avoided many of the negative consequences of who I am if they had made me feel a bit safer in my own skin.

Just a thought.

Just because this personality is a bit different from 'average' (if there is such a thing) doesn't make it something you need to worry about. Bad handling by my parents and teachers aside, mostly I view these traits of mine as quite special. I am great with people in my work. Focus on the gems here. She is who she is and she sounds lovely.

Answered the questions on that link hobbgoblin and DD scored 19

Was surprised to see so many of her traits listed there. Will absolutely order that book.

Cross posted

She is lovely and so special

It's the perfectionist in her that I fear for about and I worry that in my attempt to make her feel confident and self assured I have created that feeling of needing to live up to that?

God I analyse everything

I do so see myself in her and although as you say I feel it's a gift to see the world the way I do I know the path is a hard one.

You really are insightful hobbgoblin and I do appreciate your help

google sensory processing disorder.

And the weirdy stuff she is saying, well imagine trying to express yourself as a 4 year old with the thinking and perception skills she has. Get her to talk lots, maybe try a bit of reflecting back?

So she says 'my brain told me to' you say 'is your brain very chatty? is it confusing? Does your brain tell you funny things too?

It is so, so hard to have a mega intuitive brain working overtime at the speed and skill level of a 20 year old when you are 4. That's what it felt like to me as a littl'un. It might ease some of the pressure to help her find language to express herself.
Heck, maybe not even language...what about drawing or music or lots of role play play scenarios...?

I think to get some of the 'in head' stuff out there comfortably and safely is really good for such a creative mind. Maybe that sounds like therapy for a schizophrenic, I don't mean it to, it's just a whizzy brain makes you anxious in itself doesn't it?

I do behaviour management - I trained in parenting support but my private work relied massively on my intuitive skills (see it has done me a few favours ) so will try and think of some other stuff beyond the reflecting back.

It is okay to say 'I think you might feel angry/sad/worried DD' and get it wrong. She will correct you and it will create the dialogue you need for her to offload a bit.

Thak you TIY will take a look

xposted with you too...twice!

I don't think your DD could wish for better. You understand her completely. I think you will be a fabulous mummy to a sensitive child simply because of the shared empathy you have.

Thanks again Hobbgoblin

I was just sat here thinking 'so maybe I don't need to worry about the things she has been saying so much' and you post about it!

Great ideas re the reflecting back. Funnily enough I do lots of the 'I can imagine that makes you feel like....' good to know this can help

Anothe cross post

Thank you very much, you don't know how much it has helped

Gibbon
Ds1 used to have huge issues with food. I was such a dimwit and very pre-occupied with DS2 at that time and was far too harsh with him.
He would become so anxious with certain foods that he would gag.
Eventually we took him to see a really nice woman who suggested that he had sensory type issues and we later realised that he had some processing issues.
I can't add to Hobgoblins posts which I am sure are a huge help. But I would second thisisyesterdays suggestion to look at sensory processing as a possible issue.

DS1 developed a number of strategies to help himself with new textures and foods and also worked through his other sensitivities once we realised that he was having genuine problems and that it wasn't some type of attention seeking issue resulting from our focus upon DS2.

DS1 would get quite panicked about gagging and choking. I am struggling to remember exactly which of the advice we had helped but I will try and dig out the old books we used.

If it is of any comfort he is now 17, eats most things, is much better with both noise and texture and is no more irritating than the average teenager. The advice and help we had really did help him. Also being able to talk to him about the fact that these issues were real for him and not him 'being silly' allowed him to understand thatthis was something tangible that he could work through and not some kind of character flaw. Does that make sense?

sorry to just post that and then disappear! i was in a bit of a hurry

ytyour description of your dd reminded me a LOT of ds1, and we suspect he has some sensory processing issues/mild aspergers.

while i'm not keen at all on internet diagnoses, or labelling kids, I have to admit that I have found websites with ways of helping children with these disorders and have used a lot of the tips really well with ds1

I do agree that the comments such as "you can't poke babies in the eye" are 100% normal. and i don't think they're related at all. just hte other things you said that reminded me of ds1 so i thought i'd post about it

i've spent hours and hours worrying about ds1 and trying to find ways of making him less anxious etc etc and i've finally realised (i think) that it is just how he is. we can't change that, and all we can do is help him deal with it as best he can.
he hates playing in big groups and for a while I was keen to encourage him to do this to make him "get over" his fear. I've now decided that actually, it's fine if he prefers smaller groups... so that's what we go with

Hi Gibbon, haven't had chance to read all the other posts but my dd who was 4 a few weeks ago sounds similar to your dd. She isn't sensitive to food and doesn't cry at loud sounds but she notices every tiny sound and every chance you make...even if you move an item a centimetre, for example. She is also very sensitive to smell.

She, like me, is a VERY sensitive individual emotionally and will cry at something that another child wouldn't bat an eyelid at. Yesterday, she cried at an edition of Noddy because he had built a house out of playing cards and carried it throughout the entire episode of Noddy to Big Ears' house carefully and then at the last minute fell over so the house of cards all fell down!!!

My dd would definitely say something like 'you can't poke a baby in the eyes can you mummy? you can't poke their eyes out'...as a pp said, you can't do that. It is fact and she is saying it to get a reaction from you and maybe to check?? But I can definetely imagine my dd saying this (and no, she hasn't poked her brother's eyes oout yet!!).

Does your dd start reception in september - mine does and it scares me half to death but I think I was a very similar child and I survived. Good luck and try not to worry. x

Pag, TIY and 13, thank you for posting

I have looked the sensory processing and some of it does ring very true for DD.
As you say Pag, it does seem so very genuine when DD gets upset/distressed. I think that is what I find so hard. It's the way it has intensified since DD2 has been born (and not at first just the last few weeks) that I feel so awful about, as if I to blame. I know that's not the case but mothers guilt is a bugger at times isn't it.

Pag, I know how fab your DD1 is so it's a huge comfort to know how great he has done

TIY - I worried that in not encouraging DD when she is anxious I have added to/compounded her fears. You may have worried you have done the opposite. I think we are destined to question ourselves no matter what we do. It's that mothers guilt again.

13 - DD will be starting school next year and even with that extra year I worry so I completely understand your concerns there. The good news is that is you felt you were similar you will have a wonderful understanding

And thank you all for the reassurance re the comments. I feel much better about that now and I really do appreciate the time you have all taken to post

Definitely going to look more into the info you have all kindly advised on, thanks again.

I too recommend the Highly Sensitive Child book, its a fascinating read. I stumbled on it in a bookshop whilst DD2 was young - so many (not all) aspects related to her, it was a revelation and quite reassuring. She is unlike my other 2 Dcs and I have had to adjust accordingly and remind myself to be even more patient with her as she 'feels', hears and thinks about things much more deeply. Your DD is very special, and you can embrace that. Best of luck, you sound to be doing all the right things already.

Thank you CC

I am absolutely going to get that book.

Gibbon - I think you may remember I've posted about DS1 and he is remarkably similar to your DD. I to have come to recognise him as being Sensitive - reading the book mentioned before. I wish I had known about it earlier. I could have saved us some agonising.

Things which I could have understood better have languished a bit, (partly because I was coping with a baby and a toddler) and I have a lot of guilt about that. Now - the focus is on raising his self-esteem and assertiveness. I so don't want him to suffer as I did.

I won't bang on because you've also had some brilliant advice (I so agree with hobgoblin - especially the thing about knowing what a fab adult he will become).