gender and social and emotional maturity

[aegeansky]

I am fascinated by gender differences at a young age in social and emotional maturity. I am stunned by the ever-widening difference in aptitude in this are between little girls, barely out of infants, and boys of the same age.

My DS had a lovely report that noted his sensitivity towards the needs of others. He has a wide vocabulary and an analytical outlook. But can I get him to imagine and articulate how someone might be feeling under particular circumstances? No way. High level descriptions (sad, happy), okay, but he could do this years ago, and has a hugely more advanced vocabulary.

I was walking behind him and two friends (girls) coming back from a party the other day. The girls were chatting away about how so and so is sometimes really annoying, but that's because of this or because of that, and how someone else is really bossy, but then again, is 'better playing one to one than in a group'. The level of analysis was just way beyond anything I've heard boys come out with.

This is surely a nature thing, right? Does it ever narrow, this gap? Cynically, I'd say it gets large and larger and only starts to close, if ever, very late in life.

But I'd love it if DS could apply his abstract understanding of language to the real world and start to have some theory about other people's minds, just as girls of the same age do. Is that going against the grain too much? Clearly I'm not worried that this will effeminise him, although I'm sure some might. (I mean, it won't effeminise him.)

I think boys probably have a very good understanding of how people work, they just don't see the point in vocalising it. Their peer groups are just as emotionally strong but it is demonstrated differently maybe.

8scurryfunge*, interesting. What makes you say this? From what I've seen, boys' peer groups even at this age (7-8) are characterised by competition (physical demonstration of a skill) highly extended/obsessive discussion of a subject area with particular expertise or knowledge (an online game, star wars, that kind of thing).

They never discuss how they are feeling or how someone else is feeling, either individually, in pairs, or as a group.

And actually, my point is, how do we/others know that boys have a very good understanding of how people work if they don't articulate it? In many cases, I'm not at all convinced. How could anyone demonstrate empathy, for example, without being explicit about understanding someone's feelings?

I have experience of my DS discussing how people feel certainly on a one to one. I recall chatting to him about storylines whilst reading to him when he was little and constantly asking "how does that make him feel?"."what would it be like to be?".....etc.

I agree there is certainly more rough play but still feelings creep into it, especially in terms of gang mentality.

Maybe their expression is just not as compassionate.

I think children can empathise to a certain degree with verbalising it ...a cuddle, a drawing, a gift.

*without verbalising, that should read.

Hi Scurry, thanks for sharing that experience. I think that this doesn't disagree with what I'm saying. Of course feelings creep into boy play. And of course, with parental prompting, some boys might be able to describe what a character is feeling. But how about unprompted? How about a real person? there's a difference.

How old is your DS now? What have you noticed, as he grew older, about his ability to volunteer information about someone's state of mind, personality or behaviour in a group?

And I'm specifically talking about how they articulate their feelings, or not, and the level of interest analysing, as a group or 1:1 with a peer, the behaviour of someone else.

He is 15 now and to be fair, he is an only child, so any female experience is only observed through his friends.

Perhaps he does articulate more than others due to having adult only conversations from an early age.

Perhaps I prompted him more than others, it is difficult to say.

Talking about real people's feelings incertain situations is more obvious now and his perception is quite astute but then he is almost adult.

It is interesting though.I would say his female friends come across as very mature on occasions but are quite selective about it. I think girls are more choosy about it depending on the audience (probably generalising here)

I know (highly successful) men in their mid-forties who haven't got a clue, psychologically speaking. They have been quite happy to base their whole existence on competing and winning and have never bothered to think about anything much else, let alone someone else's feelings. They are far too busy ensuring they are constantly no 1.

Bonsoir, very interesting insight - and I'd agree (even as a male)

So, if it's possible to become highly successful in career terms as a man with thwarted powers of emotional development, does that mean boys have no incentive to develop their emotional awareness and expressiveness? Does it mean that's still okay and not worth addressing?

And just why is this gender gap so yawning? And why do girls acquire and need these extraordinary skills from such a young age?

Women have always needed to develop their wits in order to (1) thwart men's superior physical strength and get men to do what women want (2) bring up children, and get children to do what women want.

Judging from my own two sons, 11 and 14, I think it is possible to have a quite sophisticated empathy without vocalising interpretations of others' feelings very much or very often. Two sorts of evidence. One is that they are entirely able to act in a way that manifests understanding, even if they don't express the understanding verbally. The other is that, when it does seem appropriate to them to speak about others' feelings they can do, in appropriate terms. It is just that this sort of conversation isn't one that grips them routinely as it seems to more often with girls.

I do think that my sons are poor at directing their comprehension of feelings to an examination of their own states of mind, rather than others. Not sure whether that is a gender thing or not.

I think that recent reseach about childhood cognitive development has shown that there are kinds of conversations that mothers school their daughters into much more readily than they school their sons into (unconsciously of course). For example, apparently girls score better at autobiographical memory and this is hypothesised as being the result of an observed tendency of mother to talk their daughters through the memories of the day more than they do their sons. It is easy to imagine that mothers also reinforce 'empathy talk' more in girls than in boys.

Eleison, very interesting, thank you. I was beginning to think this was all nature, not as you refreshingly suggest. What you say there makes intuitive sense.

In this household, DS spends much more time with a male (me) and so I have to try to produce the same reactions as a mother normally would. Ain't easy.

Bonsoir , again, very interesting and compelling. Thank you.