How to deal with aggressive 3 year old behaviour toward my 3 year old

[zulubump]

I meet with my NCT group once a week and they are a great group of friends and the kids are generally nice, but recently I've been worried that my dd is getting quite a bit of abuse from two of the more aggressive kids in the group. My dd, while being no angel, is generally quite gentle towards other kids. Today it seemed every 5 mins she was being bashed on the head by one boy or having her hair pulled by another girl. I also have a 5 month old ds who I was trying to feed, nappy change etc and it was so stressful trying to see to him as well as look out for and comfort dd. Poor dd was quite distressed after being with them for a few hours and I ended up in tears on the way home.

I don't want to stop seeing my friends, but today I felt like I just don't need this stress. If dd was treated like this at any of the toddler groups we go to I would just stop going. The mums of the aggressive two tend to ask their children to say sorry for their behaviour (although a lot of it goes unnoticed by them), but I don't think that has any real impact.

I would appreciate any advice, both from mums that have been in my situation and from mums of kids that have been doing the hitting and hair pulling. I know what it's like to bring up a little girl who is quite gentle and generally responds well to consequences for her bad behaviour, but I don't know (yet!) what it's like to be at the other end of things (maybe my ds will teach me in time to come).

hmm well i think a LOT of children go through a phase of hitting/hair pulling/pushing

the only real way to deal with it IME is to watch them like a hawk and try and stop it as much as possible whilst continually reinforcing that it's NOT ok to do this

i don';t know how you can bring this up with the other parents if they are just sitting and watching and then attempting to force a sorry.
that's a real cop-out IMO.

Yes, agree hitting and hair pulling very common and dd has done a fair bit of shoving and toy-snatching herself. Just felt that recently dd has had a rough time at the hands of two particular children and its not being dealt with. I'd happily enforce my own consequences on the pair of them, but it's not really the done thing these days is it? And I'm not sure they'd listen to me anyway.

absolutely. i think sitting and watching and then attempting an apology is piss-poor quite frankly!

i would have no qualms about telling the children off tho if their parents aren't.
even if it's just a "don't do that to x, it isn't very nice"

It's difficult. Normally I would stay near my DD and put out an arm to block any smacks etc and I would tell the other child "please do not hit, it is not very nice". But if you are looking after a little baby it is hard to do that.

I think you need to bite the bullet and ask the mother of the main offender if she could keep a closer eye on her child. These kids are 3. Hitting is wrong, saying sorry is inadequate. The mothers should either control their children or take them home. If my DD repeatedly hit another child she would find herself strapped into the buggy or going home VERY soon.

The one thing I do not recommend you do is grab the other child. My DD once came screaming across the playground to me (I was feeding her sister) to tell me a woman had hit her. Turned out the woman's little boy had been trying to take my DD's toy, she had pushed him to get him to let go and because he was about to overbalance the woman grabbed my DD's arm (instead of picking up her child). I went ballistic.

Thanks, thisisyesterday. I did ask one boy to apologise to my dd (which he did halfheartedly) and later yelled at a girl who was pulling dd's hair. Felt a bit better for it, but not sure what impact it'll have. I will persist tho.

why?

that last to haliborange? we're not allowed to touch other kids now, if they're hurting ours? bonkers. i'm not arguing for full-on restraint here but i would have been fucking fuming if someone had had the gall to be 'ballistic' at me because i'd touched their precious pushy kid.

Stop going if its that stressful..I would

Oh, no. It wasn't as simple as that! In fact I had seen my DD asking the boy to leave her alone first and thought it looked like she was handling things. I looked down and next thing I knew she was vv upset. At the end of the day, I know my child isn't perfect (if only) but she is generally pretty kind to other kids. IMO the woman could have asked her not to push, asked where her mummy was so she could speak to me, picked up her own child or simply put her arm in the middle, but she grabbed. DD had marks on her arm immediately afterwards and she was really outraged (not just "guilty crying" IYSWIM) and hey, if I don't stick up for her, who will?

I think there is a line between, for example, taking hold of a hand which is coming at your child's face, and grabbing a child so that she is hurt.

I have a ds that in the past has been very boisterous and physical/rough in his play. From the other side of the fence, I felt terrible and in the early days did not know how to manage it appropriately just felt terribly embarrassed, and would ask him to say 'sorry' which was completely ineffectual. Haliboorange's approach is a great one and what I implement now, a virtual zero tolerance approach, but a lot of supervision on my part to try and facilitate the play between the children as they are still learning and social mores and norms are a complete foreign language. Could you meet up with a smaller number of your NCT pals at a time? Best of luck and my best wishes goes out to you

of course there is, but it's a fine line in the heat of the moment and i don't think that you had any particular right to go 'ballistic'.

I'm not sure there should be "heat of the moment" where you are dealing with 3 year olds though. If adults can't manage things without resporting to hurting children how do they expect their kids to learn not to hurt each other? And maybe my "ballistic" isn't the same as yours. I had a few words, not a slanging match and didn't deck her or anything!

you said she caught her arm, which to me indicates an arm in movement meeting a stationary adult arm. and yes, ballistic is not just a few words round these parts...

the thing is making them apologise doesn't stop the behaviour does it?
it just teaches them that they can do it, as long as they mutter sorry afterwards

you need somethjing to prevent it happening in the first place. so either speak to the other mums., or try (i know it's hard) to stay close to your dd so you can protect her/reprimand the children who hurt her

oh and if i saw someone about to push my child over i would have no qualms about grabbing them to stop them from doing it

i don't care which of them started it

agree about the sorry thing. i'd say something to the mums, btw, zulu, even just saying to the more easy-going of the two that your dd was upset about coming because of the yanking etc and you've promised her that everyone will take special care that it won't happen this time. maybe something like that?

Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm so glad not to be told I'm over reacting, I wasn't sure if this is what most people expect from 3 year olds. I would indeed stick to my dd like glue to keep an eye on her if it wasn't for having to look after ds.

I don't want to stop seeing my nct group as they've been great friends for a long time now but might, as aliway says, meet just a few of them for a week or so until I've calmed down a bit. Then I will see how things go next time we are all together and maybe say something if it's as bad as before and I am feeling brave.

Invite only one friend at a time. I had the same problem when my little girl was three, she was very gentle and often would get bitten etc. If you invite and only see one friend at a time it is very easy to manage with a newborn baby/young baby. The children are often much better behaved, and the parents can't hide behind conversation or distraction.

I changed just this one thing and life became SO much easier. Remove yourself from having to see people, and just meet up with the ones with well behaved children. Why should you feel stressed? There is no need. Try to relax and be assertive when you need to be, avoid the Mothers that ignore their children's behaviour. Be nice but be distant and don't see them. They can still be friends, but playdates are off the to do list until the children are older. Be self sufficient.

You need to work your life around your own needs. Put your child first, their safety and the value of their own little bodies, and even if you do your own thing and don't see too many other children for a while until you are comfortable that is probably the way to go. Always protect your children! xx

I've got a friend whose little girl behaves like this and I truly believe that it's because no-one's shown her alternative ways to behave.

The 'saying sorry' thing is a bit pointless imho; it doesn't teach them what to do, and elicits resentment rather than empathy towards the wounded child.

Kids need to be shown how to do things other ways ("I'd like you to find your gentle hands") and understand why ("because it hurts when someone pushes and no-one likes being hurt"). When they haven't responded to this, I've removed them from the situation and told them they can return when they can remember to be gentle because I know that they can do it.

It's difficult if it's someone else's child though; in that situation, I tend to really overdo the "poor dd, it hurts when someone pulls your hair, how can I make it better?" and ignore the other child or tell them that 'we don't hit'. If it was a friend, I would try to mention it but tbh I can think of a few acquaintances who that wouldn't go down well with!

It's pretty full on that first year with two, yes? Maybe limiting meet ups to one or two people or choosing an outdoor/spacious venue so there's plenty of space to roam.

Think the best advice is to meet one at a time for a while. Then you can support your daughter more if necessary (!) and hopefully the other Mum will be more vigilant on any bad behaviour too!

You could confide in a couple of the Mums that this is why you aren't meeting the group, be very general, re hitting/pushing behaviour/finding it very stressful along with having to deal with the baby- you never know the word might get back to the relevant Mums (of badly behaved 3 year olds)!

It's not a nice stage, but I agree with pp that it should not be tolerated in 3 year olds- I was shocked to see this sort of behaviour going on at a 3 year olds birthday party recently. Perhaps I have been lucky with my DS in that the only people he lashes out with are me and his sister but to see it going on and parents doing NOTHING is shocking- oh yes there were some 4 year olds behaving like this too.

Look, your dd needs to see that you will stand up for her. Who cares what the other mums think? Next time one of the kids hits or pulls hair, you go right up to him/her and say "Do NOT hit." Then tell his/her mum what happened so she HAS to deal with it.

I've had situations like that with all of my dcs, and I promise you, once the hitter/puller knows you are not having it, things will improve. I really can't be doing with the nonsense of not telling other people's kids off when they behave badly.

I think you should also teach your dd how to tell people in a big voice not to hit etc.