avoiding punishment, but what do you do?

[WreckOfTheHesperus]

I have read "How to talk so that kids will listen, and listen so that kids will talk" and agree with their philosophy which recommends not punishing a child, as it can be counter-productive, ineffective and harmful to the relationship, and recommends more explanation of actions and consequences, but I wondered what an appropriate response would be in the following circumstances?

Last night DD, very silently, got out of bed and brought her step out of the bathroom to reach my jewellery drawer, where she proceeded to get everything out, scatter it around the room, tear some documents etc.

She is only 2.6, but looked very guilty when we found her;she knew that she'd been naughty, and had been very, very quiet so as not to be caught! Any good suggestions for what a good response is in these circumstances?

If the child knows what it did was wrong that's a good start. Punishment is probably not appropriate. However, I think it's a valid reponse today to make it clear that you are still annoyed at having your jewellery drawer emptied and that treats are out of the question.

My DS is a similar age and we're also trying to do the no-punishment thing.

In that case, I'd tell him that I was cross that he'd done that, and get him to help me tidy it all up (immediately, no playing with anything else until it was all done to my satisfaction). Then I'd put the jewellry box out of reach.

I know I should probably read the book an all, but if the philosophy is to explain that actions have consequences, why would that mean you wouldn't use a punishment, which is a negative consequence? I know some types of punishment don't work or are counter-productive, but I don't know why that means all punishments don't work or are counter-productive.

If I'd been in your shoes, given this, I would have:

• insisted she put everything back as it was
• taken away a favourite toy overnight
• insisted she say sorry

If that makes me mean, then so be it!

It was late at night, so I just said that I was very, very cross and sent her straight to bed; she scampered off sharpishm whereas usually there would be a fight!

I'm not sure that the favourite toy thing seems to have much impact; she doesn't have just one favourite, and has never seemed massively bothered to have one taken away...

Think that the philosophy in the book is more about making amends and thinking about consequences, such as tidying up when you've made a mess, or not being taken to the supermarket one day, if you've been a nuisance the previous day. You ask them to say sorry, but point out that "sorry" isn't enough by itself without changing the behaviour.

Being made to tidy up a mess or being denied a trip to the shops does count as 'punishment', of course, because it's controlling the child's actions. It's a 'negative consequence' as slhilly correctly pointed out. You don't have to employ naughty steps or hit them with a switch to be dispensing punishment.

You told her you were angry and sent her to bed.... parents have been punishing children that way for hundreds of years, with very good effect.

I think as she obviously likes playing with the jewellery, I might not get her to tidy it up. However, I would explain that I had to tidy it up as I did not want her to play with my precious things any more and that was going to be taking up the time that we would usually have spent doing (insert activity she likes).

I think the philosophy is more about the way that you frame things i.e. you don't talk about punishment, but you do explain, as Goosey Loosey says, that we have to tidy up now, instead of going to the park.

I guess I am worrying that I just got cross and told her to go to bed, without there being any consequences today.

Why would there be consquences today though? The consquence of making a mess late at night was that Mummy got cross and told her to go straight back to bed.

Sounds like she was just trying out this behaviour and knew that it was naughty really, hence her going straight to bed with no fuss.

DS will sometimes tell me when he's done something "naughty" even if I haven't noticed (eg, he's in another room and shouts to me "Mummy, I threw my bricks"). I think he just wants the reassurance that certain behaviours are not acceptable, if you see what I mean. I think it makes them feel secure, in a weird toddler way, to be naughty and know that they are going to be told off for it!

Think that you're right, Borntofolk. Will just forget about it and carry on