Two year old DD being simply nightmarish at bedtime. I need strategies, desperately.

[DrivenToDistraction]

DD is two years and 8 months, since she was born we've had everything from hellish bedtimes to extreme early waking via random screaming and crying night wakings.

About six months ago she finally seemed to have cracked it and was sleeping 8pm to 7am without any problems. We'd even managed to get her happy about sleeping with the door closed (with nightlight).It was then that DS (now 13 months) started, but that's another story.

This last week it's all gone pear-shaped again. 'twas as sudden as anything, just like all her sleep issues have been. I've no idea what the root cause is or how to deal with it. I'm having to let her work herself up to exhaustion and the screaming ab-dabs and then soothe her down to almost-sleep. It's driving us crazy and it can't be good for her.

Here's what happens - After being as sweet as anything all through the bedtime routine she 'starts' as soon as it's time to sleep. At first she's just being, as DP calls it, despotic. Kicking out, demanding this, that and the other but not being (overtly) upset or distressed. Then she moves into standard angry tantruming and finally slides into total distress. Nothing helps before that stage: being soft or strict, sympathetic or 'cross', giving in to demands, refusing point-blank or explaining why not. Nothing. This is taking up to an hour and a half

DP's done her bedtime since DS was born (I was on BF duty), but this week I've been having to take over (at DP's request) part way through the tantruming stage. Obviously that's been distressing her more, so, as of this evening we've swapped DC for bedtime.

What can I dooooo

DS has only just started kind of sleeping through after 13 months of 2 - 3 hourly waking. He's still tricky after 5 am. I'm just coming to the end of a PUPD, gradual withdrawal, night-weaning marathon and I'm exhausted. DP is recovering from a burnout.

Poor you guys. My dd is older (3.4) but your descriptions of your dd's behaviour sound very similar to how she can be.

With mine, the triggers are over-tiredness (has she recently dropped her afternoon nap?), something changing (has ds changing in some way upset her, or another part of her routine, have you gone back to work etc), or just things being different (eg nursery days changing).

What really works with my dd is either in advance of 'despotic' behaviour or when she has calmed down to say things like "I wonder if it makes you feel cross that you have to go to bed when you'd much rather be up" or whatever might be the problem. My dd's attempts at despotic world domination are definitely to do with feeling out of control - aside from the obvious giving her choices whenever possible etc etc, just empathising with this reality really seems to help.

Just wondered... does ds take longer to settle, hence go to bed later? My dd hated this when ds was born, so we all used to say good night to ds in our room, my dh would take her into her bedroom then I'd smuggle ds downstairs.

I have been exactly where you are now.
From 2 1/2 to 3 years DD was a nightmare at bedtime every single night. She'd get out of bed for every reason under the sun, sometimes up to 30 times in one evening. I was absolutely at the end of my tether.

To be completely honest, I never got to the root of the problem and never knew what caused it other than it being a phase.
It happened to last exactly through summer time, from March to October, and improved as soon as the clocks changed back, though I don't think that was the only reason.
I think she just grew out of it.
It is a phase, like everything else.
Try to keep that in mind. How ever bad it gets, it won't last forever.
I could list the 50 or 100 different things I tried, but none of them actually solved the problem, so I won't bother.
Time is what solved it in our case.
Sorry if that isn't as constructive and immediate as you might have hoped.

This too shall pass.
This too shall pass.
This too shall pass.

Cutting naps was one strategy I tried too.
It worked to a certain extent on certain days, but sometimes she ended up over tired and wouldn't sleep for that reason.
It's certainly worth a try with your DD, but it wasn't the definitive answer in my case. You may find that a more regular sleep and nap pattern will help your DD though.

Yeah, the daytime sleep thing is a tough one. She often starts asking for bed at 10:30. Nap time is 12:30...

In hindsight I always used to let her sleep too much in the day.

If she slept as much as she needed in the day and still slept at night, then she wasn't sleeping too much.
Some children need more sleep than others.
My DD never napped for more than 1 hour and I was always jealous of friends whose DCs napped for 3 hours or so!

If she's tired, let her sleep. That might help to brighten her mood and help her to think more rationally. You can always wake her to control the length. An nap earlier in the day might help her to feel refreshed, but still be tired by bedtime. Could be good.

Thanks for your help Ruth. I'll have a play with the daytime nap but I have a feeling that that isn't really the cause (this time).

Have you tried putting her to bed earlier?

We went through this, and what really helped was an earlier nap - so at 11am rather than 1pm - and never sleeping later than 1pm whatever happened.

It sounds as if it could be the 2.5 / 3 year sleep regression. More info here.

(There is a regression at 13 months too...)

Thanks for the replies, thought the thread had died.

Until about 6 weeks ago her nap was at 11 or 11:30. Her sleep 's been better since I made it later, so, if the nap is a factor then I think it's length rather than timing. Can't be sure though.

Bed time is at 7 so earlier really isn't an option. Actually, I'd wondered if it needed to be later. Gah. This is sooo confusing.

Anyway, I did bed time again this evening and it nearly killed me. I think she might be having a sort of separation anxiety. Is that possible with this age group? Is gradual withdrawal suitable for that?

AngelDog can you tell me more about the sleep regression? The site you linked to refuses to load...

site from the link has finally loaded, reading it now...

Off to bed now myself, but post again if you have problems and I'll have a look tomorrow.

DTD, I could have written your thread. Having exactly the same issues with my DS 2.8 months but without the second child issues (and with that you have my complete sympathy). I'm dealing with DS on my own due to DP unable to help (disability) so am often at end of tether! I'm not sure my DS is ready to drop his nap on all days but certainly when I look after him I try and replace it with quiet time instead and get him through to bed for a 7pm guaranteed zonk. I do think separation anxiety is a factor again too! I've started staying with my DS at bedtime, talking to him in a very low voice about what we have done that day. It seems to be working and ideally I would like him to settle himself off, but at the moment that just doesn't seem to be happening. I would rather have 30 mins of me sitting with him whilst he goes off than up to 2 hours of 'room service' calls which include 20-30 minute potty visits where he has actually finished the wee after 30 seconds, but insists he still needs to go, and if I put him back in his room he immediately wees in his PJs! And refuses to wear a nappy at night any longer. Hmmm. I fear like other posters that it may just be a stage. Like you I like to have a strategy that works and moves us on but there doesn't seem to be anything that has worked for me yet. Until my DS reliably gets through the day without a nap and is consistent with me, at nursery and with my parents who look after him one day a week, then I think bedtimes are going to be a bit of a moveable feast! I read Angel dog's thread link with interest and it does seem to be a stage!