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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Nightmare behaviour at birthday party today.....what do you insist on for manners?

31 replies

IlanaK · 19/08/2005 16:38

We went to a birthday party today with my 4 year old and alos my 14 month old. It was at ds1's nursery as they were having a funfair today and the parent decided to combine the party as part of it. Anyway, all was fine until one of ds1's friends was leaving and very politely came over to say goodbye to him. He turned his back on her and refused to say goodbye. Now, he has started doing this recently and pretending to be shy (he is NOT shy) and I suppose I have been letting him get away with it. But I thought it was so rude to this girl so I insisted that he say goodbye. WHen he wouldn't, it all kicked off. I said that if he didn't say goodbye, we would leave. He started a major tantrum at the table (they were just about to serve cake which he really wanted) and I had to drag him kicking and screaming into another room. I sat down with him and told him if he calmed down and said goodbye, I we could go and join the others for cake. I had to physically make him sit there and he escaped once and I actually had to chase after him. To cut a long story short, this went on for a while with him screaming like a wild thing. I gave him multiple chances but he just wouldn't do it. SO in the end we left.

I was totally mortified as this was in front of all the parents and nursery staff.

Anyway, what do you all insist on with your 4 year olds? He has a real block about saying "Hello" "goodbye" and "thank yoU". He is not shy and can chat the hindleg off a donkey when its on his terms. I think all the parents there think I am a crazy woman for doing this as I don't think they thought it was a big deal him not saying goodbye. ANd I know I could have let it go and just excused him for being silly or shy (As I have done in the past), but I was really fed up of him behaving like this.

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hercules · 19/08/2005 16:40

Sounds to me like you did the right thing.

hyphenlover · 19/08/2005 16:42

hmm i don;'t know that i would have forced him to say goodbye. I suddenly became shy at about 5 or 6, having been incredibly precocious up until then...

BUT.. once you had laid down the rules (ie, you say goodbye or we go) I certainly think you were right to stick to it

Pinotmum · 19/08/2005 16:44

I'd have let it go to be honest and ust said to the little girl "oh x is being a silly billy, bye bye darling" or some such acknowledgement. I would have spoken to my dd privately about how it's a little bad mannered etc but made no great deal about it. I think this is something they grown out of. Lots of dd's friends (all 4 and 5 yo) look blankly at each other sometimes instead of acknowledging hellos and bye byes. It doesn't upset them though dd sometimes asks why x isn't talking to her but 2 seconds later they're fine. Sorry ramble over

chloe55 · 19/08/2005 16:47

I think you did the right thing. My godchild is such a talker but immediately becomes 'shy' at hello, goodbye and thankyou - this started at about the age of 3 and she is 6 now and is still the same. I think it is because she has always been excused when she doesn't respond to people. I think if you continue to bypass the problem then you will be stuck with it for years to come.

oops · 19/08/2005 16:47

Message withdrawn

paolosgirl · 19/08/2005 16:47

I think I'd have done the same as Pinot in hindsight - but these things can kick off so quickly, and once you're in the middle of a tantrum like that, you've got to see your 'threats' through.

A chat and a consequence after the tantrum might be another thing you could do?

Pinotmum · 19/08/2005 16:49

I agree that once you've said you're gonna do it you have to go through with it but hindsights a great thing and I can really sympathise with this as I've had similar escalations.

Roobie · 19/08/2005 16:50

I probably would have let it go for the sake of a quiet life but understand why you felt you had to follow through with his 'lesson'. My dd has started doing this and it really is infuriating -sometimes I wish I had the stomach to really take the wind out of her sails and follow through with my threats more often!

Twiglett · 19/08/2005 16:52

think you did totally the right thing

sometimes you have to teach him a lesson that will serve him well throughout his life

bravo .. an extremely tough situation extremely well handled IMHO

and I think every other parent there would have been applauding you (and grateful they weren't having to do it)

can't stand namby-pamby 'do what you want darling' parenting .. your children are going to have standards and manners

Original poster

IlanaK · 19/08/2005 16:55

Chloe55 - that is exactly what worries me. If I keep letting it go and excusing it, he will still be doing this when he is older.

He is NOT shy. IN fact, he will go up to complete stangers and tell them about his day.

OP posts:

robinia · 19/08/2005 16:55

It would depend how often your ds had been "getting away with it". If it was the first time he refused to say goodbye then pinot's tactic would be what I would do, ditto if it was the first time in that kind of "big" situation rather than something smaller. However, if it's been going on a while, as you imply, then definitely you had to put your foot down sooner or later.

Ignore those that think you are crazy - they are the ones that will have bad-mannered older children.

Original poster

IlanaK · 19/08/2005 16:56

Twiglett, thanks for that. I don't know what the parents thought. They did not witness all of it as we went into another room, but they saw some.

OP posts:

WigWamBam · 19/08/2005 16:56

My dd is 4, and has just started to have real issues with saying goodbye - it seems to be because she doesn't want the fun to end, and with that strange logic that 4 year olds have, she seems to think that if she doesn't say goodbye then it isn't going to happen. She turned her back and refused to say goodbye to two of her friends who had come to play last week, and she wouldn't say goodbye to my parents yesterday - we had been away with them for a few days and she didn't want to come home so wouldn't say goodbye.

I don't make a fuss about it because I don't think it's a big deal; certainly with dd it's a phase she's going through that she will grow out of with time and patience. It's also one of those times when I feel it's probably best to ignore behaviour that you don't like - I ignore it when she doesn't say goodbye, and praise her when she does.

edgetop · 19/08/2005 16:57

hi ilanak your ds seems just like my ds i always like him to have good manners,he knows when to say please and thankyou so on etc.i find when we are out and about he sometimes plays up,like won,t say hello&goodbye ihave talked to others about this they say he is pushing boundarys.now i don,t make a big deal out of it i just have a chat when we get home i find it works better.some days he is great other days i can;t wait to get home,but i never let him see that it bothers me.i think they all go through stages of been shy & not talking.i would say stick with it it,s just another stage.

TwinSetAndPearls · 19/08/2005 18:06

My dd does the same as WigWamBam's and I also thinks that she thinks that if she doesn't say goodbye then it won't end. For example she had friends come to play on Monday and wouldn't say goodbye to any of them when it was time for them to go, after they had gone she then jumped up and down in a tantrum because she hadn't said goodbye!! She clearly thought they wouldn't go if she didn't say goodbye and was in shock when they actually did.

I tend not to make a fuss about goodbyes, I ask her a few times and then make light of the situtation if she doesn't want to say goodbye. I think it is just one of those odd phases that needs ignoring and hopefully it will go away.

Original poster

IlanaK · 19/08/2005 18:59

Ds definately doesn't think that if he doesn't say goodbye then he won't have to leave. In fact, today he was sitting at the table about to have cake when this happened. It was the other child that was leaving. I don't know why he is this way really. He is the same with the porters in our building. They make a point of saying hello to him as we come and go and he regularly refuses to say hello back to them. I just think it is rude.

OP posts:

Gobbledigook · 19/08/2005 19:39

Hmm, not sure I'd have made a fuss though I can understand how you felt. Sometimes children just go through funny phases like this - maybe he felt embarrassed? Also, I think if you really highlight the situation in front of other people it just makes them more stubborn and they clam up - I've found this with the 'say sorry' thing too - the more you push it the more they dig their heels in.

morningpaper · 19/08/2005 19:44

I think you did the right thing.

ritaskeeter · 19/08/2005 19:51

My dd is 4 and is also going through a stage of refusing to say hello and goodbye. At the moment she won't even say goodbye to her grandparents (PIL) which is really embarasing, as soon as we make a move to leave she runs and stands by the door, yet she is always happy to go there. If I insistshe screams and crys, which makes me feel worse. If SIL is there she ask's her to come back in and give her a kiss and say goodbye, which she will do happily for her aunty but not for me. I am hoping once she starts full time school she may get more used of this kind of interaction.

I am hoping if we don't make a big deal it will sort itself out

MumOnaMission · 19/08/2005 20:42

It sounds like the sort of thing I would do but then probably regret it later, i.e. regret making the threat because then I would have to follow it through and make a scene. If it's important to you that this stops I think I would discuss it with him before you go to see someone and say that such a thing will happen if he behaves rudely (such a losing a toy when you get home so it doesn't have to be a scene in front of everyone) and ask him if he understands.

logic · 19/08/2005 20:56

I think you did the right thing too. I think it's important that you insist on good behaviour no matter where you are otherwise they will learn that they can play up in public - and make the most of it! Don't worry about what other people think either. Personally, I would have been far more impressed that you dealt with the tantrum than if you'd let him get away with it.

frannyf · 20/08/2005 09:51

I think having told your son he must say goodbye, you did the right thing by carrying it through. I agree it is hard when you feel other people are watching and judging, but you did what you thought was best and didn't let their presence affect you, so good on you!

I think in retrospect you are wondering if it was really worth making a stand over - perhaps not, but I am sure we have all found ourselves sticking firm by something we are not totally sure is worth the bother, and I think it's better than always backing down. I think if I have specific expectations at a social occasion (e.g. I want you to share toys, I want you to say goodbye to your friends as they leave) it is a good idea to discuss them in advance. I haven't found it actually WORKS mind you, (ds is 2) but then at least we are both clear where the boundaries are! Maybe with a 4 year old this would have some results for you?

littleun · 20/08/2005 13:52

Thank god!!!
Iam sooo glad im not the only parent going through this. My 4 year old has been doing this for the last 8 months or so and its been driving me and my partener nuts!

The silly thing is he ISNT shy and will go up to any child and start making conversation......but when it comes to adults saying hello or asking him his name, he wont just turn away from them but actually scream in their face then hide!!!
He also wont say goodbye to friends but will cry his heart out when they go and he hasnt said goodbye.

aloha · 20/08/2005 21:21

Agree with WWB and others. It's a phase, I do think in their limited understanding not saying goodbye is important possibly for reasons we don't understand and it won't last. TBH I think they really learn manners by example, not by teaching - unless they are totally spoiled and over-indulged. I don't think you did anything 'wrong' but personally would have let it go.

aloha · 20/08/2005 21:22

Also think this not saying goodbye is really normal in three and four year olds.

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