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AIBU to think that the word chav is crass and overused in this talk section?

82 replies

wrongun · 28/10/2009 01:01

Chav and Chavvy, and they are always used by the same class of poster
Am I the only one sick of seeing this?

OP posts:
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Monsterspam · 28/10/2009 22:03

Same here sheep. DD is Bethany.

nooka · 29/10/2009 04:38

It's not unique to the UK. There is lots of perhaps slightly more hidden classicism in the States, with WASPS and trailer trash replacing either end.

Good summary MrsVic!

Flowery, don't worry you are middle class. There has always been a least a little social mobility. If you like you can be part of the bourgeoisie (petty or not) although that's a fairly pejorative word in itself.

In general having a degree, a professional job and a good income is the normal definition of the middle class. In fact depending on the job, salary and level of education you might even be upper middle class. Just not upper-upper (old money) unless you have inherited money too, and possibly a title. Working class is generally a synonym for blue collar, ie people who work with their hands (except for skilled craftspeople and successful entrepreneurs). But then these things are just different ways of describing society, they shouldn't be thought of as static.

MaggieBruja · 29/10/2009 09:07

oh come on annabelsmummie, there is no class in Germany?

Everybody has the same accent? There are no groups who are more likely to make errors in their speech? There are no common sets of values within groups?

Everybody values education, labels, tv screens, period homes etc in the same way??

I find that harder to wrap my head round tbh, and I am not British either! I'm from Ireland, another supposedly classless place. (ha!)

cory · 29/10/2009 09:14

Those who claim that the word 'chav' is only about behaviour, do you mean that this is a word you would use of say, the daughter of an Oxford don who married a business tycoon- simply because she lived in a 10 room mansion and had an ostentatious life style?

Surely, the whole point of the word is to point at the perceived incongruity of people of a working class background aspiring to an ostentatious lifestyle? Certain people are not supposed to have an ostentatious lifestyle; if they do, that is vulgar and pretentious. Or can you be a public school educated chav baronet?

boodleboot · 29/10/2009 09:17

i think it is a very derogatory term and one i try to refrain from using on the name threads as it always gets me in the stomach when my daughters name is called 'chavvy' as it always is on MN.....i have a ten year old Ellie Mae and we have only ever had very positive remarks in RL and she adores her name AND we have never met another but apparently it is the height of chav-ness....

cory · 29/10/2009 09:24

Maggie, just to give another angle- I grew up in Sweden which is also popularly supposed to be a classless society. Well, it isn't: some people have more money than others, some have nicer houses, some are more likely to go to the opera and encourage their children to aim at higher education. There are very clear differences between nice leafy suburbs and less desirable areas and this feeling is growing.

But at the same time, there are big differences from the UK:

There is no assumption that if you belong to a certain class, you will automatically be less accomplished in the aspects of life that require simple common sense, such as child rearing. I have never had the same sense there that we of the middle class need to teach the lower classes how to behave around their children.

There is no assumption that if you belong to a certain class, you will be less able to do practical things such as cook a nutritious meal.

You may, of course, have less Latin, or less familiarity with higher education, but there is no sense that this will influence your general ability to deal with life.

And it is assumed that all parents (unless they are positively anti-social) have valuable practical skills to confer on their children.

Pretty well everybody attends the same schools, so there is very little in the way of an upper class which have a totally different way of speech and set of experiences. (the new independent schools are generally speaking not elite schools)

Many pursuits popular in the country- such as swimming (enough lakes and beaches for everyone), forest walks (right of public access), berry picking, skiing, skating, fishing and hunting- have no class connotations and don't cost very much, which means there can be common ground between people of very different backgrounds.

chillmanor · 29/10/2009 09:24

Flowery is new working class or lower middle class.
She wouldn't 'fit' in upper (or lower upper)middle with her background.

Tortington · 29/10/2009 09:27

i named my eldest son Chav, he has a sister chicane and a brother sebastian thomas gruber the second.

chillmanor · 29/10/2009 09:28

The government occupation tables only play a tiny part. It's all about background and culture in reality.

Annabelsmummie · 29/10/2009 10:13

MaggieBruja, of course there are differences in German dialects - there are loads of (very ) strong local accents (from Bavarian to 'Berlinerish'). But these ARE NOT based on class, rather on the region someone lives in. And people are very proud of their heritage, whether from the deepest Black Forest or East Germany and are generally proud of their accents!

And of course, some people are more educated than others. Not everyone will be able to go to University. And of course some people have more money and bigger houses.

BUT those on lower income/living in less affluent areas are NOT 'classed' as being inferior or belonging to a lower class. As all children go to the local state school (including me when growing up), you make friends from all walks of life and the income/house issue really is not that important. Really!

And for all these reasons, names are not regarded as beloning to any class - the concept simply does not exist. Names might be regarded as old fashioned or trendy, but a name would certainly not be described as 'pretensious' or 'chavvy'! The whole concept simply does not exist.

MaggieBruja · 29/10/2009 10:17

It sounds great Annabelsmummie and Cory. I wish I were Swedish or German.

BarakObamasTransitVan · 29/10/2009 10:32

I loathe the expression "chav" annd people who use it are generally being twattish but weirdly Baby Names is the one section where I don't find it quite so offensive. When people ask for opinions on names they effectively ask how their baby might be preceived in later life if they name her [insert name]. Others respond that people'll will think she's a chav (or words to that effect).
I'm not convinced btw that all other European countries are that much less hung up on class than we are - but perhaps their names are slightly less bound up with it.

BarakObamasTransitVan · 29/10/2009 10:59

fwiw I just re-read my post and think I sound a bit twattish! Also fashions change so fast that I think it's nigh on impossible to predict the prejudices a name will conjour up in 15 years time.
(getting so tangled up in my own snobbery here that I'm not sure where I am) there's something very posh about a person with a supposedly "chavvy" name not living up to it, iyswim.
Oh my - I am a class-bound arse

MaggieBruja · 29/10/2009 11:15

I agree with you BarakObamasTransitVan, my Mum considered the name Carrie-Anne for me, and her friend burst out laughing and said what like carry on? you can't do that!

I am extremely grateful to that woman who was so rude to my Mum 39 years ago.

When I say 'oh that name is sometimes perceived negatively' it's not meant to hurt the op, it's meant to give them a heads up!

MrsVik · 29/10/2009 11:49

Just to confirm what Annabelsmummie said - I am British but have lived in Germany for the past 5 years. There is MUCH less concern here for social class than there is in the UK.

It's hard to explain, but until you stop living in the UK you don't realise how much preoccupation there is with how you are perceived socially, and with how you perceive others.

I wouldn't deny that people don't look up to, or down upon other members of society - I think that's human nature - but it's not as embroiled with class as it is in the UK. It's more judging on people's actions rather than on people's background.

However, immigrants from certain countries are definitely looked down on, at least in the area that I live. That doesn't depend on how wealthy or educated they are - it's a clear-cut racial issue. It's the closest thing to a 'lower class' I can think of here and frankly, it's a bit of an elephant in the room.

So, no, Germany isn't perfect - but it really doesn't have the same class issues as the UK.

KERALA1 · 29/10/2009 19:52

The Swiss teachers I spoke to recently were utterly bewildered by our education system. In their area everyone just goes to the local schools, which are all pretty good and much of a muchness. No catchment areas, choice, faith schools, private schools blah blah. Sounded blissfully uncomplicated.

MaggieBruja · 29/10/2009 20:27

It does. It sounds fabulous.

Salonly · 29/10/2009 20:29

I'm at some of the recent threads on here.

Weird.

Vivia · 29/10/2009 20:38

I'm really sorry for my use of the word. It was judgmental. I didn't mean to sound arrogant (I did sound arrogant), I guess I had other issues with the names and was too inarticulate and crass to voice that correctly. I have a name that is hideous and would definitely be deemed 'chav' by people using that term. So maybe some self-reflective issues there too. Apologies to anyone I offended.

florence2511 · 30/10/2009 01:47

AIBU to think that the word Posh is crass and overused in this talk section?

Posh and Poncey, and they are always used by the same class of poster
Am I the only one sick of seeing this?

Discuss...

Annabelsmummie · 30/10/2009 11:05

Good point florence !

Especially the connotation that being 'posh' is undesirable...

MaggieOicheSamhain · 30/10/2009 12:11

ha ha florence2511!

Bethany and Ciaran are lovely names. One is a bible name and a place in Israel I think, and the other is an Irish name. Anybody who labels these names chav needs to rein in their judgment imo,,,

but at the same time, I do feel an aversion to certain names!! how fair is it?! Kaden, Kai, neveah, something inside my brain goes bleep. I can't really help it.

birdofthenorth · 30/10/2009 12:50

Can someone enlighten me as to what Yanbu means?!

MrsVik · 30/10/2009 13:26

It means 'you are not being unreasonable'

MamaLazarou · 30/10/2009 15:02

YANBU. I can't bear the word 'chav'. A hideous example of modern class hatred made socially acceptable by popular usage.

I do, however use the word 'posh'... but probably because I expect I am what some of you would call a 'chav'!