Please help - no problems staying asleep, just can't get 12 month old TO sleep in the first place

[AwakeStill]

I am at my wits end. DS is 12 months old and we can't get him to go to bed at night. He used to fall asleep on DH's chest (around 8pm-ish) and then we'd put him down, but now he won't even do that. He's still running around now after I have tried and failed at 2 hours of pick-up put-down. I haven't eaten yet. I work a City job and am finding things really really hard. DH looks after DS during the day, and DS is napping later and later in the day, which I've spoken to DS about. DH says when he's tired, he's tired, and there's nothing he can do. But my life at the moment is coming home, when I'm lucky by 8pm, when DS has quite recently woken, feeding him, bathing him, spending a couple of hours trying to get him to sleep. Then waking with him at 5am, getting him back to sleep between 5 and 7am, giving him breakfast, washing and dressing him, then going to work. I am EXHAUSTED. What to do? Is this just how it is??

Sorry, that was meant to be in Behaviour and Development. I am so tired I can't see straight.

Your DH needs to be stricter with himself and wake your DS up earlier or put him to bed earlier for his nap.

And until he can manage this, he is to do the getting to sleep at bedtime routine. Two hours of PUPD each evening will focus his mind somewhat, no?

Your DS won't fall asleep if he's not tired - and why should he?

I had a chat with him after I posted. I said that I thought we should maybe try and get DS into some sort of a routine, and that I wasn't criticising him at all, because what he does is what I do on the weekends (when he plays golf). But, I said, I find it really hard with DS being up so late, and maybe we should put him down for a nap earlier when he's tired but not asleep. He looked at the ceiling the whole time. And then I said, don't you want to talk about this, as I think its affecting me, and all of us. And he said no, not really. So I went outside for a bit of a cry as that upset me a bit and I am also very very tired. Not sure where to go from here really.

Oh, dear.

Any chance you can take any leave in the near future? You sound very stressed and it is hard when you have a little baby.

How is your DH about looking after DS while you're working? Was that a decision you reached together or a necessity?

I had the same problem with DD 14mnths,she always fell asleep on someone, she was still up at 10-11pm some nights...and all through the night too, i had gone back to work and was just exhausted some nights only getting 2 hours sleep.....afraid we resorted to controlled crying, it worked a treat in three nights, I feel like a new woman.....I feel like DD almost thanked us. It 's worked for daytime naps too. I think the routine of it all has really made a difference.
I hope thing get better for you

Hunker we are actually on holiday for the next two weeks (in this country but seeing various relatives from both sides). DH did say when I tried to talk to him that as we were on holiday he would be interested to see what routine I instigated and then he would follow it. But I don't want to be the rule-maker all by myself. I think I don't see enough of DS as it is, and I don't want to be the bad guy. After the two hour PUPD tonight I went into the kitchen and said to DH I'm at the end of my tether, and he said OK bring him through, and then two minutes later DH had already gone to get him, which makes me a bit concerned that DS will think I'm only there for nasty things.

About DH looking after DS- its a no-brainer, really as DH is studying so is off all summer. I looked after DS until he was 9 months then went back to work - City job so pays too well to give up. DH was finding that he didn't have any time for himself so I found a lovely lovely Summer mother's help/nanny who comes round three days a week from 10 till 4 and takes DS to groups, for walks etc. And DH also plays golf Sat and Sun from 8 till 4 or 5. I'm feeling a bit like there's no time when I am actually doing just me stuff - I'm either at work or at home. And I love and miss DS more than words can say of course, so wouldn't give up any time with him. I'm just so tired. Sorry for the essay..

I sympathise, massively, AS. It's bloody hard to work long hours with small children, for all sorts of reasons.

It sounds like perhaps you and DH aren't having much time together as a couple either - does he have to play golf every weekend? And, as you say, you're not getting any time to yourself, which is a killer.

I'd say routine will be hard to instigate in some ways when you're away as you will be constrained by wherever you're staying and wanting to do things with your relatives - try not to be uptight about it. Perhaps say to DH before you go that you think it'd be an idea to go with the flow and relax about routine and see what happens.

I preferred to think of "shape of the day" rather than routine - so instead of strict clock-watching, eating at fairly regular intervals and then sleeping in some of the gaps between the eatings, some days more than others, depending what you were doing. Routine always made me think of this

Thank you for the sympathies Hunker - I am feeling a bit alone in it all at the moment. I always hate any conflict between me and DH but especially in parenting. Its v hard, especially as I am not here during the day. I am conscious that things I suggest as parenting things come across as "You should do this" orders and I try and not come across like that. I am v down, haven't spoken to DH since our earlier chat.

Katpotat, how old was your LO when you did controlled crying? How do you do it? I've got a vague idea that you leave the baby for 5 minutes, then 10 minutes etc, but that might not be right?

Hee Hunker at the Friends thing!

I think CC may not work here - because if your DS is sleeping too late in the day, he won't be tired at bedtime.

It's tough when you're not making parenting decisions together. I think one parent is often the "lead" with things like this though, but it's how you lead that makes all the difference.

Can you ask DH how he feels about your lives at the mo? Can you ask him if there's anything you can do that would make his life easier? If you show him consideration, it's not unreasonable to expect it back - and you can suggest that after you've explored his feelings, perhaps?

Hunker, yes of course, but I thought to be honest I had done that a bit with finding the lovely Summer parent's help lady to come three days a week. And a cleaner, for two days a week. I am in the horrible position where I would love DH's life!!

I rather think I'd love your DH's life too!

How about you come and live with me?

Seriously though - have you asked him his opinion about stuff, or just done it because you think it's what he wants?

Ask him how he feels about your lives together, maybe? And tell him you love him and are very fortunate that you're leaving DS with the best person in the world you could be leaving him with whilst you're at work - his doting dad.

Does them good to hear a bit of flattery - and if you say it often, chances are it'll be true one day if it's not quite there now.

Agree with others on here. He won't sleep because he's simply not tired. This is because he's napping too late and possibly for too long. Your dh doesn't sound as if he's likely to try what you suggest, so if there's any way of you taking a bit of time off, I'd do that and start re-jigging timings.

Thank you all, you are all lovely and have cheered me up! I will now negotiate the awkward going to bed with someone who is not speaking to you thing!

She was 13 months, i was at my wits end... at this point DD was falling asleep around 5 pm, you do have to agree with you DH about this though. It is hard, we put LO to bed the first night at 8 and left her 2 mins to start with, working up to 5, 10 then 20 mins, it took 2 hours the first night, and she woke a few times. Second night we started with 20 mins working to 45 mins, and she did wake but we left her for 45 mins...by this point she was settling herself within 20 mins. I did no picking up or talking just patting her back and laying her down when she stood up. I know this might not be the answer for you, but it may be worth talking about. Conversations with my DH sounded exactly like yours.

LOL at the friends thing too also agree with shape of the day.

Don't fall out over it - no point and too much wasted emotion. Don't go to sleep not speaking though - give him a kiss and tell him you love him. He probably feels criticised, I bet.

Chin up - it'll be fine one day!

It does sound as if he could probably go down for his nap earlier, but that said, he also sounds like a natural night owl (like my 15m DD).

Maybe just don't even think about bed until 9.15 or so, then put him down some time about 9.45. Would he then still take 2 hours to go to sleep, or would it be faster? If you put him down later but he went to sleep faster, you'd also be less tired than after 2 hours of PUPD, and you would all of you have better quality time both before and after his bedtime.

or maybe put him down more like 9.30, but keep bedtime routine as short as poss? (I don't read stories at bedtime - at the moment, anyway - it gets her too revved up & she just hates putting the book away).

One more thing - would DH be able to give DS breakfast? That could make a difference to you and might be easier to negotiate than changed naptimes for now...